Lie Nielsen No. 51 Shooting Plane

[John Morris]

My next hand plane, I gotta have her. Been collecting Lie Nielsen's over the last 12 years, and it's time now to make a big jump for their No. 51 Shooting Plane. She is absolutely gorgeous. Still eating off the proceeds of my big stationary machinery sell off, and having a blast spending it! Hey, dad don't get this much money very often and I don't know when I'll have it again, it's my turn!

 

No. 51 Shoot Board Plane

The Lie-Nielsen Shoot Board Plane is based on the Stanley 51, which was made between 1909 and 1943 and sold with a companion metal shooting board. Our Shoot Board Plane will fit the original Stanley board, but can be used with any type of shooting board. Plans for simple shop-made shooting boards are included with the tool. The skew-set blade can be adjusted for lateral adjustment to allow for angled cuts, such as draft for pattern work. Read more...

 

 

 

[Gerald]

Thanks for the video. I could only afford one of theirs and one LV. Both Christmas presents.

[John Morris]

Just now, Gerald said:

Thanks for the video. I could only afford one of theirs and one LV. Both Christmas presents.

I have a few LV's too Gerald, great planes, I am pulling ahead of them though with the LN's, the LV's are great to use, but I like the traditional styling of the LN Stanley Bedrock based designs. Sometimes the LV's can get a little too futuristic looking, but they are beautiful tools to use as well. I said I have been collecting LN's for about 12 years, well, I only have four LN's, ya, they are expensive. So that's an average of one LN every 3 years, that's about right, that reflects my allowance my family allows me to have.

[Gerald]

We John I just decided to collect the original Stanley and have at least one of each even number from 3 to 8. And then there all those others like plough planes , pattern planes. one transition plane (one is more than enough) and some more stuff I put in the plane category.

[John Morris]

2 hours ago, Gerald said:

We John I just decided to collect the original Stanley and have at least one of each even number from 3 to 8. And then there all those others like plough planes , pattern planes. one transition plane (one is more than enough) and some more stuff I put in the plane category.

What an awesome collection!!!!! I love the old Stanley's, specially the flat top bedrocks. Been seeing some beautiful almost NOS Stanley's on eBay a whole bunch lately. If you need to round out your collection now would be a great time at the good ol eBay store.

What is your favorite favorite go to plane Gerald, which one do you reach for mostly?

Pictures pictures!

[steven newman]

Hmmm....I MIGHT have to keep my plane til under lock & key.....

[John Morris]

1 hour ago, steven newman said:

Hmmm....I MIGHT have to keep my plane til under lock & key.....

Specially if I'm in your neighborhood Steve!

[Gerald]

@John Morris I usually go to my #3 for quick stock removal since mostly I a making a wide board narrow. My low angle LV is also a fav. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Gerald

[steven newman]

hmmmm

Compost happens...

[Gerald]

Here you go Steve.

[John Morris]

On 10/18/2018 at 5:14 AM, Gerald said:

I usually go to my #3 for quick stock removal since mostly I a making a wide board narrow. My low angle LV is also a fav. 

They are pretty Gerald. That LV low angle is a dream I bet. I have a No. 7 Low Angle Jack by LV, and it can tame wild grain like nothing! I have the low angled LV block plane too that I love, great on end grain. Lee Valley is a great tool, is that one you have a low angle block with the large size handle? Thanks for sharing Gerald, wonderful collection!

[Gerald]

11 hours ago, John Morris said:

They are pretty Gerald. That LV low angle is a dream I bet. I have a No. 7 Low Angle Jack by LV, and it can tame wild grain like nothing! I have the low angled LV block plane too that I love, great on end grain. Lee Valley is a great tool, is that one you have a low angle block with the large size handle? Thanks for sharing Gerald, wonderful collection!

Got the plane first and then added the handle. Sure is nice for end grain too

[John Morris]

1 hour ago, Gerald said:

Got the plane first and then added the handle. Sure is nice for end grain too

I have the block plane, now I have to add that handle! It just seems it would much easier to plow through end grain with the leverage of the handle added. When I use my LV block plane, for end grain, I really still have to push, even with a micro blade exposed, that being said the cut is supreme, once I get it pushed through, but having that handle I bet would be the bees knees. Thanks for sharing that one Gerald, headed over to LV right now!

[oldwoodie]

So, are there a lot of difference in wood planes? I thought they are just holders for a blade. So, what's the great difference in how a Stanley or Fulton or Craftsman, or maybe a Buck Brothers with a sharp blade and set just right going to shave wood? I have no LN or LV, so I cannot compare them to all the different ones I do have.

SO, ARE 

[Gerald]

3 hours ago, oldwoodie said:

So, are there a lot of difference in wood planes? I thought they are just holders for a blade. So, what's the great difference in how a Stanley or Fulton or Craftsman, or maybe a Buck Brothers with a sharp blade and set just right going to shave wood? I have no LN or LV, so I cannot compare them to all the different ones I do have.

SO, ARE 

Jim The whole deal is like the difference between that Dormeyer drill from the 50's with the aluminum housing and a Festool drill. LV and LN are heavier or you could say solid construction. By being built that way the have less chatter so get a smooth cut easier. I agree some of it is overkill and if you know how to sharpen, set the blade and accommodate the grain:: then the difference is not as huge. But if you do not know all that stuff there will be a large difference.

[steven newman]

Strange about that "Chatter"  myth...as I have never had a Millers Falls plane chatter.....

 

IF someone wants a workout..let them push those heavier planes around....I prefer mine a bit lighter in weight....because one usually has to lift said plane up, bring it back to the starting point, and push again...which would you like to do?    Push and pull a #8 ( 10 pounds) or a #3 ( feather weight?) all the live long day?

 

Plane weight is another myth...you have to remember I''ll add another 240 pounds to what ever plane I push.   Don't feel like having arms like Popeye..

remember, before WW2 era..those Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls planes were  THE Premium Planes of their day...they had to be, otherwise someone else would get all the sales.....and were used by people to earn a living. 

[John Morris]

14 hours ago, oldwoodie said:

So, are there a lot of difference in wood planes? I thought they are just holders for a blade. So, what's the great difference in how a Stanley or Fulton or Craftsman, or maybe a Buck Brothers with a sharp blade and set just right going to shave wood? I have no LN or LV, so I cannot compare them to all the different ones I do have.

SO, ARE 

Ol Woodie, the question you asked is a huuuuuuge subject and could ignite a firestorm larger than our California wildfires, as you can already see in @steven newman reply . So I'll try to be as neutral about the subject as I can without fraying any edges around here.

 

Talking about hand planes and trying to figure out which are best or better or different or worth the money or junk etc, is like getting two woodworkers together and both telling each other why their table saw is better than the other.

Let's put two tables saws together in the same room, one a Powermatic 66, the venerable table saw with a long history and reputation, and the Grizzly 1023 table saw, a staunch stocky powerful bugger that can rip with the best.

No doubt, you'll get a great cut from either TS, you'll get plenty of power, you'll get a lot of performance matches with both machines. (I owned a Grizzly Table saw and loved mine), but there is a fact that the Powermatic when observed closer is machined better, has better designed and stronger trunions, has better mechanics, smoother parts to turn and slide, the fit and finish from what I have seen and experienced in a PM66 is superior to that Grizzly machine, yet they both get the job done, and the Grizzly will cut just as good as the PM, and that ol Grizz will probably live just as long as the PM.

 

So if they both cut the same, and they both show great performance, then why spend the extra grand and a half for the PM? Now that my friend is a personal question that only the purchaser of that machine can answer.

 

So translate to that, hand planes. I have used many types of hand planes. I started out with old generic planes my dad gave me, plastic handles, thin irons, I have no idea what they were even called, they also rusted easily. Sure I could get good cuts from them, but they lost their edge quickly, they were a bear to get an edge, and they did skip because you could not get the components to line up solidly and register against each other perfectly. So ya, they were crap, they may have been old Wards planes for the homeowner back in the day, I can't remember.

 

Then you have the venerable Stanley's that are and were indeed the benchmark of hand planes, used by the common man and the elites, you have your fanatical fan base for those planes indeed, and for a great reason, they are great planes.

 

But there are differences in the old Stanley's and the relatively newer reproductions such as Lie Nielsen and Clifton planes produce. They are finer machines, the fit and finish is superior, the mechanisms are smooth, the depth adjustment wheel turns very smooth and precise, the plane irons are thicker and made of superior steel that holds an edge much longer than the Stanley's, I could go on and on, you just have to pick one up and feel it for yourself.

I like to say, the way those pricier planes are made, is akin to gunsmithing, they are very fine and very precise, and yes a bit more heavier. The fact is, over the years, we have learned how to make a better plane, it makes sense doesn't it? After all these years, are you telling me you cannot make a better plane than the venerable Stanley? Of course you can! It just makes sense that we could, and we do. We have CNC machining, superior metals, experience, and history, to make a better plane. It just makes sense. Is the Chevy truck today better than the Chevy truck of 1954? Of course it is! Because of the lessons learned, and the technology we have today. So it would make sense, that the relatively newer hand planes made by reputable makers today, are superior in craftsmanship and fit and finish then the older planes made over a hundred years ago.

 

As for the performance, again, you just have to pick one up and use it, and let your own experience be the judge, I have experienced both, and I fell in love with LN's and LV's too. Am I saying overall the Stanlely's or Fultons or Bucks are not great users, no I am not, and I cannot. Because a hand tool is a completely personal experience, because of the human to tool mechanics that happen when we use our hand tools, only the person using them can make that judgement.

I don't have a lot of money, but recently I came into a chunk of it when I sold off my woodworking machinery, and I am using the proceeds to re-tool my shop, I already had a decent collection of LN's and LV's and Stanley's and a few odds n ends for planes, but now that I have my funds, I am going to purchase a couple LN's. I could own 3 or 4 Stanley's for the price of an LN, but I just love the LN's.

 

As an aside, the extra weight the LN's have, for me personally is not even noticeable. It's a non issue. Some notice it, others don't. Steven notices it, it' a personal thing these hand tools, are Stevens concerns about the extra weight valid, heck ya!!!! Because he notices it, and he is the only one who counts when he uses his hand planes, like I said, it's personal.

 

Long winded, hope I helped.

If you feel like it, go to YouTube and look for videos that compare hand planes, there are many, many videos titled "Lie Nielsen vs Stanley" or insert plane maker name here video, their are many, and varied opinions on the subject.

Cheers!

 

Oh yes, one more thing, are the LN's and LV's and Cliftons pricey? YEP! But, I bet if a mathematician, of which I am not, took the price of a brand new Stanley in 1886 and the price of a brand new LN or LV or Clifton today, and did the math, inflation and all that, I bet they are a great deal, if not the same cost.

 

 

[Gerald]

As a sidebar planes can be tweaked to improve performance. I bought a Stanley #8 which had been upgraded with a Hock blade and I upgraded a #7 with a pinnacle blade. Both work very well and it was much an improvement on the #7 when I changed it.

[John Morris]

Just did a little research.

 

Average annual salary of a skilled worker in 1900 was $449.80

 

Average salary of a skilled worker in 2017 was $44,500

 

In 1902 the cost of a Stanley No. 4 was $2.90 and 0.64% of that annual salary in 1900.

 

Today the cost of a Lie Nielsen No. 4 is $350.00 and 0.78% of that annual salary in 2017.

 

I'd say those LN's are a pretty good deal still today.

[Gene Howe]

No salary. Guess I'm stuck with a bunch of old Stanleys.