Itemized post-stripping Qs (EZ Low-toxic items/process for chair

[JudySmith]

Hi, i'm an amateur interested in restoring my grandpa's chair (see attachments which i've cleaned with 50/50 vinegar/water). I wish to restore it to its original look (sorta like the lacquer of the early 20th century) - because parts of it became weather-beaten, bleached, and stained. I'd like to aim for a Matte look along with minimally-protective finishing. I plan to strip it, but that may cause the wood to become lighter than it used to be originally.

 

So here's my questions:

 

1. After stripping (for which i hope to use 32-oz QCS spray-then-hose), would you sand or condition (and what Grit or conditioner, hopefully easy & non-toxic)?
    
2. Should i apply Dark Walnut stain prior to applying vinyl & lacquer - or would vinyl & lacquer be sufficient to darken it to its original look?
    
3. For health concerns, if stain is advisable, which one would you advise that's EZ & least-toxic?
    
4. Which vinyl & lacquer are EZ and least toxic (Or is there any least-toxic polyurethane that would not require sanding and sealing? Such as this lady once did: https://designsbystudioc.com/restore-refinish-oak-desk-chair BTW, is the industrial Mohawk very toxic?
    
5. At minimum, how many ounces (and coats) of each finish would offer passable coverage? I don't seek more than passable.
    
6. How long to wait between coats?
    
7. As for protective gear, I do have gloves & onion goggles, but are there any protective face masks that won't squeeze my cheeks due to TMJ-D?

 

In summation, I prefer the simplest, least-toxic and most budget-friendly route I can get away with. If itemized answers are omitted i'll be floundering, because how would an amateur like me know what to order and how to proceed?

 

Thanks!

Edited June 2, 2024 by JudySmith

[Fred W. Hargis Jr]

I don't do much (none, actually) refinishing, but that's a cool chair! Welcome to the forum.

[JudySmith]

If you say so!

[lew]

@kmealy

[lew]

I see the bottom boards are being held together with bracing. Are the glue joints, holding the original bottom boards together, still intact or have they come apart? If they are no longer secured, I would reglue them before going much further.

[JudySmith]

Uh, its really held together firmly, and nobody is really looking at the underpart. Anyway, that's how it was when my grandpa sat on it (my dad had probably used those wood pieces to reinforce it).

 

Also, i'm thinking of possibly getting a chair-repair guy to do the steps after my stripping, so any answers i receive here can be relayed to him. I'm just trying to do my homework preparatory to possibly using him. He doesn't usually do refinishing, rather just repairing, staining and polishing.

 

He certainly would know how to get rid of the ughy underparts and glue it together, though he may even say its not necessary.

Edited June 2, 2024 by JudySmith

[JudySmith]

P.S. I have to do some errands now and afterward may get busy. I'll see when i can squeeze time to get here next. Thanks.

Edited June 2, 2024 by JudySmith

[Larry Buskirk]

Chair is Quarter Sawn Oak and was probably originally finished with a Shellac finish that darkened/oxidized over time.

I'm not familiar with any vinyl finishes so can't comment on them.

 

[JudySmith]

15 minutes ago, lew said:

I see the bottom boards are being held together with bracing. Are the glue joints, holding the original bottom boards together, still intact or have they come apart? If they are no longer secured, I would reglue them before going much further.

So if there's anyone here who can respond underneath each of my itemized Qs, i'd appreciate it.

[Larry Buskirk]

Link to making cheaper strippers.

https://repaintnow.com/diy-paint-remover/

[Gerald]

Personally since you just want it passable I would sand off any loose finish and stain a dark walnut (MINWAX PREFERRED) then polyurethane from a rattle can

[lew]

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

After stripping (for which i hope to use 32-oz QCS spray-then-hose), would you sand or condition (and what Grit or conditioner, hopefully easy & non-toxic)?

I would sand. If the wood doesn't have any major defects, splinters or other objectionable characteristics, I would start sanding with 120 grit, then 150 grit, then 180 grit. You could go to 220 grit if you wanted a really smooth surface. Wipe down between each sanding grit with mineral spirits or alcohol.

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

Should i apply Dark Walnut stain prior to applying vinyl & lacquer - or would vinyl & lacquer be sufficient to darken it to its original look?

Apply the stain after sanding but before the clear finish. Let the stain dry several days before applying the clear protective coat. The walnut stain should be sufficient to darken the wood. The clear finish will make the wood grain appear more "intense".

 

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

Which vinyl & lacquer are EZ and least toxic (Or is there any least-toxic polyurethane that would not require sanding and sealing?

Rattle can spray on lacquer will dry faster than rattle can spray on polyurethane. Both will provide a protective film. My preference is polyurethane, but that's just me.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Minwax-11-5-fl-oz-Gloss-Oil-based-Polyurethane/999913663

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Minwax-Brushing-Lacquer-Aerosol-Gloss-Clear-12-oz/17253520?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=1850&gclsrc=aw.ds&adid=2222222227717253520_117755028669_12420145346&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-394283752452&wl5=9006672&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=17253520&veh=sem_LIA&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsPCyBhD4ARIsAPaaRf1fPJL9hctEgvxZSLmK6Ws4Hu2tQssutcrkfMWwOp5r3w0kpRMQnEUaAv69EALw_wcB 

 

Both polyurethane and lacquer are not toxic after they have dried.

 

Not sure what "Mohawk" is

 

 

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

For health concerns, if stain is advisable, which one would you advise that's EZ & least-toxic?

Water based stain is the least toxic and lowest VOC-

https://www.lowes.com/pl/Water-based--Interior-stains-Interior-stains-finishes-Paint/4294512270?refinement=4294696384

 

 

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

At minimum, how many ounces (and coats) of each finish would offer passable coverage? I don't seek more than passable.

A 4 oz. can of stain.

For spray polyurethane 2 applications should do it

For spray lacquer 3 applications should do it

 

 

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

How long to wait between coats?

A couple of days after applying the stain

Check the spray cans for the recommended recoating time. Polyurethane is about 2 hours. Lacquer is much less- about 30 minutes.

 

 

3 hours ago, JudySmith said:

protective face masks that won't squeeze my cheeks due to TMJ-D

That's going to be tough. An N95 mask really isn't suitable for vapors and fumes although it is better than nothing. I have this one

https://www.rockler.com/gvs-elipse-p100-half-mask-respirators?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsPCyBhD4ARIsAPaaRf0POEBm8FW30yi3nnxUq4oIONvtB-tHF48JGAcjhvqqw90p1ogkhcsaAqy1EALw_wcB

 

It stops some vapors but not all.

 

If you know an autobody repair person they might lend you one of their better grade ones.

 

 

I AM NOT A FURNITURE REFINISHING PERSON AND THESE ARE MY OPINIONS.

[John Morris]

14 hours ago, JudySmith said:

He certainly would know how to get rid of the ughy underparts and glue it together, though he may even say its not necessary.

Hey Judy, I wouldn't get rid of the bottom boards, this is grandpas chair, those repair boards are awesome, I'd leave em as is! You want to simply restore the chair, not change it. I have not read all the post or yours entirely since I gotta run but I'll be back on later.

Short of just making the chair sturdy, the finishing process can be very simple, sand it and slather some oil on it and done. Unless you want a stain on it, which may be the case, remember I have not read everything here in its entirety so I may be off base.

But personally I love the bottom boards repair job that perhaps grandpa did himself? I'd keep as much of grandpa in that ol chair as I could, just preserve the chair, don't rebuild it or make it look new.

[John Morris]

Just glancing at the images, I wouldn't even strip it, just lightly sand and coat it with something, there's a lot of hard earned patina on that old chair, I like it the way it is. Just clean it to knock off the loose stuff, lightly hit it with 180 grit sandpaper on the visible parts, and put a coat of something on it, I haven't thought of that part yet. But if you slow your roll on this and let us hash it out with ya, I bet we could come up with some great ideas to preserve, not restore, but preserve, a great piece of grandpa's soul there.

[Cal]

Judy, that is not at all the chair I was expecting - that is a fine old piece of furniture! 

Calling on @kmealy and @Smallpatch to offer some guidance for you here.

[Cal]

Was the chair in the house during the flood?  If it was it likely took on a bunch of moisture.  Be sure it has dried down and inspect all the glue joints before proceeding...

[kmealy]

Here's some of my opinions:

 

After stripping (for which i hope to use 32-oz QCS spray-then-hose), would you sand or condition (and what Grit or conditioner, hopefully easy & non-toxic)?

> I am not familiar with that stripper, but I would always recommend sanding with a 180 or 220 sandpaper.  It's important to get all the old finish off if you are going to stain it.  If you are going to use water clean up, you will also need to sand off the raised grain.  Oak does not usually require a pre-stain conditioner -- other woods it can help.
 

Should i apply Dark Walnut stain prior to applying vinyl & lacquer - or would vinyl & lacquer be sufficient to darken it to its original look?
> I would, this is quarter sawn white oak and staining will bring out the figure.  After sanding, you can wipe with mineral spirits or denatured alcohol to get a preview of what it would look like without stain.  Your choice of finish will also affect the final color.  Water-based finishes will be nearly clear, varnishes will be amber, shellac and lacquer have a variety of tones.

 

For health concerns, if stain is advisable, which one would you advise that's EZ & least-toxic?
.> Stains are of three types: chemical, oil-based, and water-based.  The latter would be least smelly, but it's important to put on plenty,  keep it wet, and wipe off soon.   General Finishes make some good stains in both oil and water based formulas.  Whatever you are using, get good ventilation, for example in an open garage.  Finishes themselves are non-toxic after curing (that can be up to 3 weeks).

 

Which vinyl & lacquer are EZ and least toxic (Or is there any least-toxic polyurethane that would not require sanding and sealing? Such as this lady once did: https://designsbystudioc.com/restore-refinish-oak-desk-chair BTW, is the industrial Mohawk very toxic?

> A good water-based finish dries fast, but is best sprayed.  So is lacquer.  Personally, if you don't have a sprayer, I'd use a wipe-on finish as there are a lot of joints and concave surfaces that are difficult to brush well.  Mohawk is a well-known commercial finish and touch-up products company.  They make a variety of products.  I have always preferred to spray finish on chairs -- I can do a chair in about a minute and it takes about an hour to brush on a coat.  This may not be an option for you, though.  I use aerosol sprays for touch ups and very small projects but never liked them much for bigger projects.  

At minimum, how many ounces (and coats) of each finish would offer passable coverage? I don't seek more than passable.

> Depends a lot of the product and application method.  Normally, a quart of anything will be sufficient.
 

How long to wait between coats?
Shellac and spray lacquer 30 minutes or less, varnish overnight.

 

As for protective gear, I do have gloves & onion goggles, but are there any protective face masks that won't squeeze my cheeks due to TMJ-D?

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by kmealy

[Smallpatch]

Judy you aught to be completely fogged by all that information.

  First off it is an ole Oak office chair as most of them back there had a swivel base which was better for collectors . I can't remember what glue they used back then but it didn't work so good as the 4 boards on the seat will have to be taken apart and the extra pieces removed, thrown away, then re-glue.. My refinishing would not start until all the joints are taken apart and flat sand the excess old glue off and no power sander should be used for the wood needs to stay completely flat to get good glue joints. I will use Titebond 111 for its water proof. This chair is why I grew to hate oak wood because every piece of oak furniture I ever refinished almost all had to be rebuilt and most folks didn't have the money back then for all the labor that was involved and I would not mess with any furniture that had my name involved in the restoring if it was not done to my standard.

     My suggestion, water should never be used in furniture refinishing. It will make the wood expand which is bad.

No thick stripper should be used for this kind has to be scraped off and this could cause more places to sand out. If Kleen Strip is anything like Kleen Kutter was or that might be spelled Cutter it should work and you don't want to use a thick remover. This is what I use to use and we bought 5 gal at a time.  Just use a two or three inch brush and keep applying the remover and it will end up on the floor. No ruff sanding at all floor as this would cause dents  Just keep applying the remover until the wood feels like wood instead of something sticky.  Using a soft wide brush start applying the remover and keep putting it on the top first and if you are patient the old lacquer will start flowing to the floor so do this outside in the shade. You might have to use a tooth brush to get in to v's but your big brush should remove all of the finish on the chair.

  Now when you think you have removed all the finish.. use 0000 steel dipped in lacquer thinner and go over all the wood. Just keep applying more lacquer thinner with the wool until the wood feels like regular bare wood 

  This will dry quick and now is the time to start knocking all the loose joints apart but be careful for some idiot could have used nails or screws to try to tighten the chair back together as they need to be removed before they cause more repairs.

  I would not recommend you do regluing because lots of different clamps will be needed.

  While the chair is in all the pieces you can sand off all the wood so it will be the same looks no matter if it is light or dark as long as it looks the same . Or you can wait until every thing has been reglued as the excess glue will need to be removed sooner or later. I try to keep any glue from getting on any area outside the joints as it will change the looks of the wood in those places.

  The most simple way to put an old antique back to original is use 100% tung oil and not any of the Tung Oil Mixes for none have any tung oil at all.  Wood Craft has it and maybe the big box stores now but none use to stock it. Just make sure it says 100% tung oil.  I like to thin the tung oil about 25 to 50% with regular paint thinner and any rag works better than a brush as you don't want to apply it that thick. Just cover the wood completely and then use a dry ray to remove any sitting on the surface. Let dry two or three weeks for more coats. I use at least three coats on the wood in the bathrooms where the wet towels hang and they  will keep looking great forever. If you use straight 100% it will get sticky and never dry. You just want a little to penetrate the wood each time and none to sit on the surface.

  The reason I fell in love with 100% tung oil I was doing a large project and I was using a small hand towel to apply it. I just laid it back for I was to use it again in three weeks or so and I just set it back  and that job I applied it three times then the last time I folded it up like a bowl so after It completely dried I poured water in it and set it on the sink area. A couple of weeks later the towel still had water standing in it...So this told me to give it more trial and I did a piece of wood on all sides and after 4 applications this was a few years ago and since rain runs off in a few hours my board still look like it did when I started the experiment.

  I think this chair will look good if just a little sanding all over and not necessary to get it all the way back to the original wood before any stain or color was used.  And probably not needing more color added. Just mostly to get all the wood smooth and 220 or 320 wood work great. No need to go any finer sandpaper.

   There should be 1/4 or sometimes 3/8" dowel holding the arms together and where it joins the rest of the chair and sometimes I replace the dowels for a larger size just to satisfy my little mind. But that's more work.

  You could wait to do the sanding until after the chair has been completely re-glued and that will get the places smooth to the touch where two pieces of wood are joined like on the end of the arms where someone will be rubbin.

  So I removed the finish first then after the steel wool-lacquer thinner dried, that\s about 5 minutes, I would take all the loose joints apart, clean the joints, lightly sand all pieces then reglued everything...when glue dried go over it all with hand sanding and trying to keep the same general appearance all over then the 100% tung oil treatment.

 

smallpatch

[JudySmith]

Wow, I read the above replies, and trying to wrap my mind around not using stripper in order to better preserve the original patina.

 

Lew, thanks for all your efforts and links! I had noted that for some reason, the Minwax poly and lacquer doesn't come in Matte. Is there a reason for that? Is Satin as good as Matte insofar as retaining the vintage look?

 

John Morris, interesting what you say about keeping the patina, and not to remove the boards on underside. (Yet on the other hand, Smallpatch says to get rid of the "extra pieces"

 

Cal, the chair was not involved in the house flood. It has been stored on a wood pallet in garage.

 

kmealy & smallpatch, thanks for your detailed responses! Kmealy what did you mean by "water cleanup" and which of General's wipe-on finish do you think is good? (unless 50/50 Tung-oil/Water is better...

 

As for the carpentry work & 100% tung oil, so i'm thinking my local furniture repair-guy was on track when he said that he stains and polishes. I now see the latter methods would better preserve the original patina, whereas i'm assuming initial stripper would not. Note when i concernedly asked him if it would be safe to sit on the chair without stain rubbing onto clothing, he hesitated, and didn't want to guarantee anything. It's that which got me nervous. But hey, he can probably reglue and repair the parts of the chair. Whereas repair is definitely beyond my ken, and maybe even my physical strength.

 

I realize this may be disjointed, but i'm dizzy by now, trying to get all the various input reconciled. I think i'll take a break for awhile.

Thanks again!

Edited June 4, 2024 by JudySmith

[John Morris]

2 hours ago, JudySmith said:

John Morris, interesting what you say about keeping the patina, and not to remove the boards on underside. (Yet on the other hand, Smallpatch says to get rid of the "extra pieces"

 

Just like any arts and crafts genre, there are going to be many opinions and methods on how to do this or that.

 

This is my opinion, "Grandpa's Chair". There is much more to that then just the fact that he owned the chair. Grandpa's chair is a chair that he may have sat in always, it was his favorite chair perhaps, how much wisdom and advice was dispatched to others from that chair, how many cups of coffee did grandpa have while sitting in that chair, the bad news he got, the good news he told from that chair, the letters he wrote from that chair, the chair he used as a step stool to reach high things, the chair he fell asleep in.

 

It could be just a few or many of those things above that makes it "Grandpa's Chair". This is just me, if it came from my grandpa, I'd make repairs that make it usable and safe, get it to a point that I could put a couple coats of Shellac on it perhaps (you can ask your furniture guy) so that the old grime doesn't get on your clothes if it even does, my experience is it doesn't, but you can test it, take a white cloth and rub the chair with it, see what comes off.

Old furniture has soul, I know some folks love to knock down all the surface and turn the wood close to new as possible and refinish it completely so we have a beautiful nice brand new surface, and that's fine.

 

But for a family heirloom like "Grandpa's Chair", I'd want something that sits in my home that folks will immediately see the chair and know that's "Grandpa's Chair". If I knocked it all down and refinished to a bright brand new chair, the soul is gone then. It's just a wooden chair now that can be bought from any antique store. If I keep it like it is the best I can (preservation), then there is only one like it in the entire world that is "Grandpa's Chair".

 

Those repair boards on the bottom, I love those. It's another part of Grandpa I'd keep. He made those repairs perhaps, another part of the "soul" of the chair. There is a lot to that ol chair, worthy of preservation in my opinion.

Hope that helps a little bit

 

The most important thing is you are happy with what you do to the chair. There is nothing wrong with making it look new again, if that is what you want than go for it! It is fun to see an old piece of furniture look brand spanking new again, I admire complete restorations when folks do them right, making that old hutch or table or chair look like it just rolled off the post or pre industrial fabrication line.

 

I'm just offering a perspective perhaps you had not thought of yet.