I did this bowl from a piece of maple. The wood grain is very slight, so I thought about playing around with some colored dyes on the outside then finish with lacquer.  I’ve never used any dyes before so I have a few questions and advise from those who have experience.

I’m looking at the Mixol pigment , my thought is I could mix it with denatured alcohol to blend the colors or (plan b) go with a solid color and mix it with shellac. 
any thoughts or advise?

I follow a turner/artist (Rebecca DeGroot) who uses dyes on a lot of her work. She told me she uses Transtint dyes. Which are alcohol based. Her advice, for getting the most intense color is to use them straight from the bottle, undiluted. 

 

I've tried some water bases colors, however, I found they raised the grain of the wood. If I had more experience, I should have realized that and raised the grain first, sanded, then applied the color.

 

@Gerald, @HandyDan and @teesquare use dyes. Hopefully they will chime in!

I use acrylic ink to color the ornaments I make.  It acts like a dye where it sinks into the wood and will bleed.  I use burn limes to keep it under control.  The colors are very vibrant.  Here are some eggs I did for reference.

 

 

 

I did candle ornaments this year and dyed the bases before gluing in the candle.  I should mention I brush it on and never leave a brush mark.  I use wipe on poly to give them a shine.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by HandyDan

I use Chestnut stains mostly. They are not really deep colors so I also use Chroma Craft for a deeper color choice. I have worked a little with the inks as Dan pointed you to but have not as yet come to a opinion on them. Chestnut does not hide the grain even with more than one application and that is usually what I am looking for.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, lew said:

 she uses Transtint dyes. Which are alcohol based. 

I've tried some water bases colors, however, I found they raised the grain of the wood. If I had more experience, I should have realized that and raised the grain first, sanded, then applied the color.

 

Transtint dyes can be used with Denatured alcohol instead of water.  My experience it lifts the grain slightly.    Danl

Thank you everyone. @HandyDan those are great looking. @Gerald Your red and green bowl is kind of what I was picturing for my bowl. I think I just need to order some dyes and start playing around with them. 
 

When dyes (or pigments) are mixed with a finish like shellac or lacquer, it becomes what is called a toner, or sometimes a shader.  I have used them extensively in aerosol form doing touch-up repair work. Dyes are liquids that mix with the carrier and pigments are fine solids that are suspended in it.    In my experience, two things: 

1.  they really need to be sprayed, and in light coats.  Polyshades (a polyurethane varnish toner) generally has terrible results because it's brushed.
2.  it can go from almost there to too much very quickly (see point 1) especially with the pigmented version

One note on dyes or stains is that all woods have their own color. For instance applying a light blue to some woods , I think it was cherry will yield a green color. So always test your colors if it is important to achieve a particular shade or color spectrum.

Color theory 101

 

The primary colors are

• red
• blue
• yellow

 

The secondary colors are combinations of two of the primary colors

• purple = red + blue
• orange = red+ yellow
• green = yellow + blue

When you want to neutralize one of the primary colors, you add the secondary color of the other two, and vice versa

• red - green (aka Christmas)
• yellow - purple (aka Easter)
• orange - blue (you're on your own to remember this one, but I'm a Univ. of  Illinois grad)

 

The typical green pigment is raw umber that has a subtle dark green.  I did a project a few years ago, and the stain must have turned too red in storage.  I did a raw umber glaze and it worked out better. 

 

When I was in refinishing class, one of the  other students was doing a dining table that was really orange.  The instructor mixed up some blue glaze, put it on and it did wonders.

 

@kmealy I spent a good portion of my career working in the photo industry so I understand color very well, that was an excellent explanation. 

any time I am adding color to wood I thin my color or stain with thinner and use an air brush and sneak up to the darkness I am wanting .No matter what wood I am working with I never get and blotches, Pine use to be the worse to change or add colors to but not since I started using my air brush some 30 years ago.

  I might have 10 or more samples for one small project but I found years ago if I went past the right shade that caused way more labor which I didn't want to waste. 

 The fifties and sixties were lots of strange grain colors with the rest of the wood was a stain or a dye. It didn't enter the ladies minds her wanting me to match something exact was no big deal so I finally started telling them my charge depended on how long it might take me to end up with exactually what she wanted... Funny also that it was okay with them....yea

 

 

So I picked up some alcohol based dyes the other day and started playing around with a scrap bowl. I didn’t think about the dyes seeping through the end grain. 
Would sealing the inside with shellac keep the dyes from bleeding through? Maybe thicker side walls or different dye?

Thanks,

Gordon 

 

Well that sucks.  Probably a thin "wash" coat of sealer, on the inside would help reduce that. However, you would the be "stuck" with the limitations of how you could finish the inside. 

 

This might be helpful-

https://blog.woodturnerscatalog.com/2014/06/coloring-wood-jimmy-clewes/

 

After some reading, it looks like the wash coat should be on the outside of the turning.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?294278-Help-Water-soluble-dye-bleeding-through

 

https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/dye-help.8464/

 

 

@Gerald

Thanks @lew  for the links. When I can get back out to the shop I might try some Shellac sanding sealer, then resand just to remove the sealer from the surface. 
for now, it’s back to shoveling. 

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by Gordon

How are you putting it on the wood. 

  I use an air brush and thin my stains where I can ease up on the darker shade I am after..  

If it needs to be darker just keep adding more stain a little at  time.

   If you are putting your stuff on with a rag or a brush then that is your problem. 

 

This is how finishing wood was done many moons ago. 

  I am not telling anyone how to do things but I do believe most chores have gotten better with time

and a person don't have to keep doing it the antique way. 

My way might not be the best way but check out some of my things here under smallpatch. 

Just remember you did ask for help.

Minwax colors are actually a dye and stain.  Dye the background stain foreground.

I normally if working with softwood use a dye then a stain to eliminate blotching.

dye are very small particles that uniformly color the wood.  Stain are larger that lodge in the grain and any defects in the surface.

With hardwood I normally leave the dye out and just use a stain.

But let say you have a stain that is red and you want it brown.  Then add a dye of green and when they mix you get a true brown.

Now that said I most usually do a grain reversal or a light colored grain is turn a opposite color or black.

Making it stand out.

Then use a brown or reddish brown dye.alc

brown is 150 red with 75 green

Than always top coat with your favorite finish (shellac, poly,  lacquer just to name a few).

15 minutes ago, Smallpatch said:

How are you putting it on the wood.

Yes, I was applying it directly on the wood, rubbing it with a paper towel.  
I’ve never used or tried airbrushing. It might be time to look into it. 

19 minutes ago, Smallpatch said:

Just remember you did ask for help.

I did ask for help and I appreciate your feed back, you do get some great results . Thank you for responding. 

Careful paper towels introduce dust use a clean rag and if the dye or stain is oil based dispose of the rag when done properly.

 

I will assume by the color this is alcohol based stain or dye. These are very thin in nature and will bleed along the grain. You can use a wash coat , which is a very dilute coat of finish (shellac in this case) on the outside. Now when you do this you may not get good penetration of the stain. I usually do not dye bowls  only hollowforms , unless the bowl is a bit thicker (like 1/2 inch) . If your bowl is as thin as it looks (1/8 or less) I do not believe you will be able to dye it at all. You could use colored pencil or markers.  Using airbrush as Patch suggested "might" work but I have serious doubts with wood thickness.

 

Also the wood has somewhat of an affect on the whole thing. Porous wood  like red oak would not be a good candidate. Maple is good but usually does  not take a deep dye well.

@Gerald yes it was an alcohol based dye. Thanks a bunch for your insight, I have one more that is cut thin like the picture so I’ll have to decide what I’m going to do with it.