February 26, 20233 yr Author This has got me thinking about some of those old homebuilt PC's. (Probably still have most of them.) Do you remember when if you wanted more than one processor core you had to build it? One of the wifes favorites was the Dual 1Ghz P3 Slot 1's on a SuperMicro MB with 1Ghz of Ram with a 3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 AGP as the main video card, and a VooDoo 4 4500 PCI feeding the second monitor running DOS 6.22, W98SE, W2K, WXP. Actually preferred W2k over WXP. Wish MS would have given W98SE dual processor capabilities even though it ran fast on that build. Running DOS was insanely fast.
February 26, 20233 yr Impatient to wait for a new power supply I brought in the PC that was running my CNC Shark. Windows Vista 32bit OS. Swapped the PCI Parallel port card from the win10pro machine into this old Dell PC. Plugged it in, turned it on. A little sluggish and had to try twice to see the boot drive, but did boot up. Installed the drivers that came with the parallel port card. Check the system ports and did indeed see LPT3 port listed. Installed Mach3 from the disc that came with the CNC mill. Copied the license and config file to the new mach3 folder. Ran Mach 3 but it claimed to be in demo (unregistered) mode. Closed it to check the files again and the PC decided to go into slow motion. Could NOT get any response from a click or keypress so turned off the PC with the power button. I'm hoping the cold state of the PC having been in my unheated garage is what is bothering it right now. I'll wait an hour and try again, hoping it has gotten up to room temperature. 4D
February 26, 20233 yr Something is distracting the processor of the old Vista machine. I can hear the disc thrashing/working when I can't seem to get any response from double clicks on icons or key presses. It isn't hooked up to the network but it may be trying to look for updates or somesuch. No idea really. I don't remember this PC acting so poorly. When freshly booted up I had a few minutes of life to copy the registration file to the Mach3 folder, but after than I couldn't clicking on the Mach3 icon to react. The big change was adding the parallel port card. Mach3 also wanted to add a parallel port driver so I let it. Hope there isn't some driver conflict happening. 4D Edited February 26, 20233 yr by 4DThinker
February 26, 20233 yr Author 15 minutes ago, 4DThinker said: The big change was adding the parallel port card. Mach3 also wanted to add a parallel port driver so I let it. Hope there isn't some driver conflict happening. Does the Vista machine have a native parallel port? If so try going through it. The Mach3 driver may be trying to access LPT1. The Diagnostic Systems I set up use a special driver for the serial port that kind of rewires the way the port works. The serial port adaptors on their cables are not wired in the normal pass-thru wiring configuration. Could also remove the parallel port card, then see if the machine will boot. If so I would suspect a conflict. Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Larry Buskirk
February 26, 20233 yr Machine boots OK, although so far it has paused when turned on to have me press F1 to "try again". This was true before I installed the parallel port card. There is no native LPT1 port on the machine. I'll try again later today. So far I haven't gotten far enough to turn on the mill when Mach3 is running to see if it can be controlled. Found enough info on the web to change where Mach3 looks if it isn't yet seeing the LPT3 port.
February 26, 20233 yr More playing. Once Vista has loaded, everything responds fine. I can explore files, run the Aspire 8.5 version on it, etc. I can even run Mach3. This time I checked to see if mach3 was controlling the CNC. Nope. Looked at what address it had listed. That didn't match the address reported by windows of my LPT3 card. Went into the LPT3 properties and found I could rename it to a LPT1 port, although that didn't change it's address. Went back into Mach3 and changed the port 1 address to match my now LPT1 port. Heard a momentary grunt from the CNC but still couldn't jog it. Closed Mach3 (ended the session) and that's when Vista turned to molasses, Click on anything and I'd hear a beep and the mouse cursor would freeze for awhile. Couldn't do anything but power off the machine with the power button. It is Mach3 that is not releasing something when it quits, causing the PC to slow way down. As I;ve played with the port setting in Windows I'll try uninstalling Mach3 first. See if that frees up the PC do work normally all the time. Then re-install mach3 to see if it can see the LPT1 port with it's address when it installs, and makes any difference. 4D Edited February 26, 20233 yr by 4DThinker
February 26, 20233 yr Uninstalled Mach3 from the Vista machine. Just to make sure I also deleted all the screen icons and the mach3 folder to be sure. Rebooted. Vista ran fine as did every program I ran on it then exited. Vista even let me shut down properly. Booted it up again, still working fine. Installed Mach 3 again, but this time unchecked the parallel port driver it wanted to install. Install went fine. Copied the needed files it needed from the install CD. Ran it. Turned on the mill. Still no control. Checked the port settings and they didn't match my now LPT1 port. Changed them to match, then closed Mach3. Vista still running fine. Ran Mach3 again, turned on the mill, but still couldn't control it. I'm thinking the PCiexpress card doesn't pass all the control lines Mach3 wants to use to talk to the controller. I've got a new power supply coming for a PC that does have an on-board parallel port. Looks like either I need to try a better PCI parallel port card or wait for that power supply and see if that machine will run mach3 and let it speak to the mill. In both cases that won't be until tomorrow at the soonest. Later for a different/better PCI card to try. I thought I was so clever to order a refurbished PC with parallel port to run my mill. Didn't check what version of windows it came with. No parallel port, and a version of windows that wouldn't support printer ports is what I got. So far nothing I have that runs will run that mill. The parallel port driver it comes with causes serious system lockup conflict with the PCI card if installed. 4D Edited February 26, 20233 yr by 4DThinker
February 27, 20233 yr I maybe off base because I haven't played with Vista in a LONG time. You don't have to do anything to the config.sys do you?
February 27, 20233 yr 28 minutes ago, KevTN said: I maybe off base because I haven't played with Vista in a LONG time. You don't have to do anything to the config.sys do you? Boy that brings back wishfully forgotten memories. It has also been a long time since I actually played with Vista. The existence of a config.sys file to examine and or edit was a forgotten option. Lots of .ini files I have played with, which in many cases include initial settings for the program. As I can't do anything else to get the Taigtool CNC mill running I'll have a look and see if there is a config.sys file in the mach3 folder or anywhere else for that matter. Included with the PC use of Config.sys files I have 4 sisters who over time each gave me some grief. Many times I prayed that I could re-config.sis to correct the situation. 4D Edited February 27, 20233 yr by 4DThinker
February 27, 20233 yr Nope, no config.sys file to mess with. In LinuxCNC there were a couple of files I could edit to change jog speed limits, homing axis order, machine limits, and such. They were simple text files that often had comments or at least variable names that hinted about what each listed line meant. I'd sure rather be running this mill with LinuxCNC than a very old Mach3 that has a seriously outdated interface (in comparison). I suspect LinuxCNC would still have trouble communicating over parallel port on the machines I've tried though. 4D
February 27, 20233 yr This is a new machine isn't it 4D? And you are having to scrounge up some old computer to make it work? Color me confused...
February 27, 20233 yr Author @4DThinker I also had no luck setting up the Diagnostic Systems when trying to use a USB to Serial Port Adaptor even though the recommended adaptor came supplied with one of them. Others reported having the same problem depending upon the PC they were using. Didn't matter if it was a desktop, or laptop. I asked around and a friend had an old Dell Latitude D430 laptop that he no longer used. It was loaded with Vista Basic, and pretty slow due to the what I thought was a weird 60GB IDE PATA ZIF hard drive, I replaced it with a 128GB ZIF MSATA SSD from an IPOD, loaded W7Pro 64bit and everything was fine as far as the Honda Diagnostic System was concerned. The GM Tech2 System would not load on the 64 bit OS due to it having a 16 bit installer, so I swapped in another SSD and loaded WXP Pro 32 bit, and had no problem getting it to load, and work.
February 27, 20233 yr 29 minutes ago, Cal said: This is a new machine isn't it 4D? And you are having to scrounge up some old computer to make it work? Color me confused... The machine is brand new. The manufacturers of course have to provide a controller and software to to run it at least. Probotix provides LinuxCNC which also uses a parallel port connection to their controller, but also provide a PC already set up to talk to the controller. The folks who made my CNC shark came up with a proprietary controller and software that works over USB. The Taigtool folks provided a controller that need to connect via parallel port, but not a PC with one already configured. In an early email to them they warned that if no parallel port was available an expensive USB>LPT1 adapter would work. Another $167ish for the one they linked to. I knew inexpensive parallel port cards were available for PCs and bought one. What I didn't know was that WIn10 64 bit OS had no drivers available to see that parallel port. Brought in an older PC, swapped the card into that one. The Vista OS saw the card after I installed the driver that came with it. The Mach3 install doesn't see it though. Mach3 was last worked on when parallel ports were common on PCs. My current thought is that the PCI express card doesn't really pass through all the command lines that an on-board parallel port would. It certainly doesn't use standard addresses for parallel ports. I've got one PC left that has an on-board port, was running windows something when its power supply died. A new power supply is on the way. We'll see then if it can run my new CNC mill. Edited February 27, 20233 yr by 4DThinker
February 27, 20233 yr Author 6 minutes ago, 4DThinker said: My current thought is that the PCI express card doesn't really pass through all the command lines that an on-board parallel port would. That's the same conclusion I came to when trying to use the USB to Serial Port adaptor when setting up the diagnostic systems. I originally tried loading the Honda software on a W10 desktop system using the supplied adaptor without luck, as soon as I went to the laptop with native serial, and parallel ports the problem was gone. You'd have gotten a good laugh at seeing a desktop system spread around inside a vehicle, might work ok inside a shop but not so good if you want to go portable.
February 27, 20233 yr This "adventure" to me suggests it is time for a new, public domain control software that runs from whatever the current windows version is out, over USB. Something like LinuxCNC. There was a moment in my past when I salvaged the good guts from 3 or 4 old printers before throwing the rest out. With the small stepper motors and a TinyG controller run over USB, and some g-code sender I found on the web I was able to make a 1/4 scale CNC that would cut 1/4 scale parts of any full sized toolpaths. That TinyG controller is a brilliant control card IMO. Not up to driving larger stepper motors though. Taigtool has been around since mach3 was newish and easy to get running. That they've stuck with it to run their machines doesn't surprise me but I'm sure it causes more support headaches for them. Checked tracking and the new power supply will be here with my mail today. By the end of today I'll know if I have a PC that can run the mill or have to pop for that expensive USB>parallel adapter they linked to. 4D
February 27, 20233 yr Author There's a few different CNC programs listed here, not sure what hardware they work with. https://all3dp.com/2/best-cnc-router-software/ Mach3, and LinuxCNC are listed among them as are some that are free.
February 27, 20233 yr New power supply arrived. D.O.A.. Having the worse luck trying to get this new CNC mill running. Power supply going back to Amazon as defective. The stand for the metal cutting miter saw did also show up. Still in a box, but getting it set up will be my afternoon entertainment. Nice warm day today and the garage has warmed up so I can play out there to distract me from not being able to play with my new CNC mill. 4D
February 27, 20233 yr Author 16 minutes ago, 4DThinker said: New power supply arrived. D.O.A.. Having the worse luck trying to get this new CNC mill running.
February 27, 20233 yr Miter saw stand all set up with saw included. Nice rig. Dead power supply sent back to Amazon with refund credit already confirmed. Found the usb-2-parallel adapter recommended by the Mill manufacturer a little cheaper than the source they suggested and have ordered it. Claim is that it will work even with windows 10 64 bit. Now to hurry up and wait. Might clean off the rest of the table that saw used to reside on since I now have access to the middle of it. That table became the benchtop tool table, with router table, small oscillating drum sander, and the miter saw. Time to make better use of that table space. I need some horizontal workspace more than anything else. 4D
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