plane Sharpening a plane iron

[acr_scout]

I have learned just enough to be dangerous.

I watched several of Paul Sellers' videos on sharpening various things. I had no idea that it is advisable if not a must to initialize brand new planes and chisels.

I have several of my chisels and both of my planes shining like a mirror and have a fair amount of razor burn on my arm from testing the sharpness. They are SHARP.

 

My question is this. I think I understood Mr. Sellers to have said initialize at 25* and then sharpen at 30*. Why?

 

Also, I took apart one of my Lowes block planes (don't make fun of me) and I am not sure if the bevel was up or down. Does it matter? If so, how do I figure out which way it goes?

 

[kmealy]

Depends on where you get your planes.   If you get a Lie-Neilson or Veritas, they will be pretty sharp.  But I have heard people say they do those too.  (Maybe those people that spend more time sharpening and measuring their shavings than actually building things)  If you buy a common brand, they may need sharpening.  I've not seen any of the new "premium" planes by Rockler and Woodcraft, so I can't say on those.

 

Sharpening at two angles is generally called a "micro-bevel"  The secondary bevel means that you don't have to work so much  at the final honing.  This of course, gets somewhat negated if you are using a grinding wheel to do your preliminary grinding (as opposed to say, coarse stones or sandpaper).  https://paulsellers.com/2012/01/sharpening-chisels-forget-weaker-micro-bevels/

 

Every block plane I've seen has bevel up.    The  bed/frog is set at a lower angle and putting bevel up makes the effective cutting angle in the right range.

Edited December 27, 2016 by kmealy

[Grandpadave52]

ACR...@steven newman and @schnewj both have done some tutorials on this site for plane refurbishing and sharpening a while back. Both really good. I did a quick search, but can't find the ones I'm thinking about...hopefully they'll come along and point you in the right direction.

 

I've followed along with Paul Sellers too...mostly all good...I did deviate from some of his suggestions; Check out some of Rob Cosman's videos too...very good; also Lie-Nielsen, Hock Tools, Woodworkers Journal has some good videos on You-Tube. If you haven't already, search for Scary Sharp Plane Irons & Chisels...lots out there.

 

As for your block plane, bevel up...you can upgrade your Lowes models slowly finding older model Stanley's, Dunlap's, Miller-Falls at yard sales, flea markets & antique stores...reconditioning them is half the fun and is VERY addicting...I'll try in the next week or two to get a post on my block plane addiction.

[acr_scout]

@Grandpadave52

I'm thinking about running out to the Shenandoah Valley and look through some of the junk stores out there. I might find some planes. But for now, what I have will have to do.

[kmealy]

11 minutes ago, ACR_SCOUT said:

@Grandpadave52

I'm thinking about running out to the Shenandoah Valley and look through some of the junk stores out there. I might find some planes. But for now, what I have will have to do.

A number of years ago, visiting upper Shenandoah Valley, my BIL and I went junk store shopping.   Didn't find anything all day until the last shop, 5 minutes before closing, found a nice 605 for $35.   Otherwise a wasted day.

[Grandpadave52]

2 minutes ago, ACR_SCOUT said:

@Grandpadave52

I'm thinking about running out to the Shenandoah Valley and look through some of the junk stores out there. I might find some planes. But for now, what I have will have to do.

Yep, we all started somewhere...gotta' warn you though...once you find that first one, oh it slowly creeps into your veins, 'til you can't stand it and you have to find another, then another, then maybe a #4 or #5 or two or three, then maybe a #7, Oh wait, what about the corrugated sole models...oh I need that one, JUST for parts...can make you PLANE nuts I tell you...no known cure either...so just be careful out there in the valley...they're lurking just around the next table, booth or store...

 

On a serious note @steven newman sometimes has some for sale...could be a good place to start too.

[lew]

I think we need to get @steven newman in this thread!

[John Morris]

Just don't get caught up in sharpening over kill. Here is a good topic I started with my alter ego Courtland. You can find it at 

I have wavered back n forth from sharpening with a jig to free hand, I have finally settled into free hand sharpening. Micro bevels, yada yada, whatever. I like one primary bevel. That's how Lie Nielsen ships their planes, and if it's good enough for Lie, it's good enough for me, and if it's good enough for Krenov, well who the heck am I!

My dad never worried about bevels on his hand planes, he taught me how to sharpen when I was a kid freehand. It's easy. Just do it and you'll figure it out.

Since I was a kid, I did the jigs, and the holders, etc. I switched back n forth, for the last few years I have been free hand sharpening, and I have no complaints.

Like Krenov said, folks can get so caught up in stuff like that, they forget to work the wood, paraphrasing of course.

 

[steven newman]

For plane irons, I use a 25*  to start.   I try to keep just a simple, flat bevel.   Some of the plane irons even are stamped at what angle to use.   I tend to grind a new bevel when the old one just would stone  any more, or it looks like this...~.....where all the wear was in the middle.  

 

Have been known to take my belt sander, clamp it upside down in the leg vise, and use a Veritas MK1  guide to work away the grinder marks.  Once I start with the MK1, I leave the guide in place until after the leather strop stage.   I work not only the bevel,  but the back.    I try to keep the back flat. 

 

Once the bevel looks good, then an oil stone or two, then I clamp some wet-or-dry sandpaper onto the stone.   I go from 1000 grit up to 2,500 grit, then  I go to the leather strop.   Dry ( well, it is a bit oily from use) I have an old leather work belt, and usually use the "rough" side.  

 

IF a plane iron has a camber, then I go with a free hand sharpening.    I worry more about the back of the iron, then the bevel itself.    Usually I just stone the back, and strop the bevel. 

 

Block planes are normally bevel up.   There are a couple out there designed as bevel down.     I usually go with just a plain 20 degree bevel.   I tend to flatten the backs.     I also polish the area right behind the bevel, where the cap iron rests, and try to mate the cap iron to the plane iron so no gaps are present.   I look for a smooth path for the shavings to slide up and out on. 

 

One tip about which way an iron will fit into a plane.    IF there is a logo stamped on the iron, it goes up.    They want you to be able to read who made such a fine tool.   If the logo is there, but facing down.....flip the iron over, and it will cut better.   Oh, and I have seen a few planes come through the rehab center.....the chipbreaker was not on the back of the iron, but were sitting there with the end right on the bevel.   When you flip the iron over ( bevel down) the chipbreaker then goes on the logo side of the iron. 

[acr_scout]

I got lazy and sharpened one of my chisels at 25* the whole way. Man that thing is sharp enough to shave and is doing a great job just by hand, no mallet required. It is so shiny it is freaky. The picture below of the bevel is a reflection of stuff on my bench.

I know I am just using MDF but I am trying to teach myself how to make box joint as well as how to sharpen stuff.  I maxed out at 2,000 wet-dry.

 

 

 

 

[John Morris]

18 minutes ago, ACR_SCOUT said:

The picture below of the bevel is a reflection of stuff on my bench.

ACR, that looks great! Nice job! I love that mirror shine, great job man!

[Grandpadave52]

By George ACR, I think you're getting it down! when I get on a sharpening binge, I actually find it calming and relaxing working to achieve that mirror shine...

 

Great post and glad you asked...with these kind of questions, we all pick-up a nugget or two especially when Mr. Newman drops in.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Grandpadave52

[acr_scout]

19 hours ago, steven newman said:

 I go from 1000 grit up to 2,500 grit, then  I go to the leather strop.   Dry ( well, it is a bit oily from use) I have an old leather work belt, and usually use the "rough" side.  

 

I read about s lot of people using leather. I watched a video of Mr. Sellers using some kind of paste from a bar. What I don't understand is what the leather does. Leather against metal?

 

What happens after the first use?

 

I'm not negating the effectiveness I just like to understand why.

Edited December 28, 2016 by ACR_SCOUT
Cleaning up the look.

[Fred W. Hargis Jr]

The leather is abrasive enough to bring back an edge that isn't too far gone (remember the barbers with their straight razors?). The paste/bar you saw being used is a rouge, it has a very fine abrasive in it tat makes the leather work even better. It (the rouge, or whatever you want to call it) comes in numerous grits and they often have different colors to denote which is which. Some folks believe the best leather for this type of use is horse butt stroops. I have one, but can't compare it to anything else since it's the only one I have.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Fred W. Hargis, Jr

[steven newman]

Sounds good to me.   I use mine as a final polish after I'm done with the gritty stuff.    I pull the iron or chisel back towards me 10-20 times. flip over, 5 times on the back......repeat as needed. 

 

The old work belt was one I used to carry my nail bags on.   Been well used, too.     It has a "patterned" side  and a rough side.    I  mainly use the rough side. 

 

Sellers just uses a block of wood, with a big load of the green rouge.   Block had been planed flat before hand, as well.   

 

The rouge sticks usually are for a buffing wheel on a grinder. 

 

 

BTW; You might know these "job numbers" I used to carry...11C20, 13F30, 11B20.  

[acr_scout]

29 minutes ago, steven newman said:

BTW; You might know these "job numbers" I used to carry...11C20, 13F30, 11B20.  

 

13R/X5/L3/2P

152B

153D

154C

[acr_scout]

I ordered a piece of 3/8" plate glass today. They tell me it will be a few days before it gets here.

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by ACR_SCOUT
Corrected typo

[Grandpadave52]

42 minutes ago, steven newman said:

I pull the iron or chisel back towards me 10-20 times. flip over, 5 times on the back......repeat as needed. 

Yep works great; I use exact number of strokes...don't know why I came up with that number...maybe from you.

 

I do use the "green stuff" from H-F)...I started flipping the leather piece over then to the "smooth side" and repeating...seems to make ever so slight difference...

 

My leather "strops" are from a pair of old Red Wing "Engineer" boots...cut off the leather uppers, cleaned with Murphy Oil Soap, then cut some strips and just lay on my piece of granite tile (bought it from Habitat for Humanity Restore for $2; had a chipped corner)

 

Until I started doing this, I never knew what sharp was; what I thought would be tedious, brainless, repetitious work turned out to be very relaxing and rewarding. I started on plane irons, then I was rounding up wood chisels...I was doing this probably when I should have been doing other things, but I just couldn't quit...I love being able to take a chisel and pare off shavings on end grain just to do it.

Harbor-Freight Polishing Compounds

[steven newman]

I flip the iron or chisel over and strop the back of them.    Sometimes a small "wire" will appear after stropping the bevel,  a few passes on the back helps remove that wire edge. 

[schnewj]

Sorry, that I've been MIA lately. I'm having some computer problems (corrupted system files) and it is limiting my internet speed.

 

I have to basically agree with all that has been said above. Don't get hung up on secondary bevels they aren't necessary. I personally do a secondary bevel, since I don't always freehand sharpen. If you are going to use a jig to sharpen (plane irons and chisels) then look to the Veritas Mk II. Don't grouse about the price, because it will pay for itself a hundred times over in saved time and frustration.

 

I have used just about all of the methods you can imagine. All I will say to each his own as they all get you there.

 

Study Paul Sellers' videos. He generally only sharpens to 220 and does a stropping with Chromium Oxide. Don't be fooled by the color "Green" they ARE NOT necessarily all alike. Use a premium green buffing compound from a source that specializes in polishing tools and supplies. Drawing upon my experience as a once upon a time "professional" buffer I will remind folks, that the buffing compound does not sharpen. It polishes the already sharp edge and gets rid of the wire edges, waves and grooving that causes friction. You have to start out with a properly sharpen piece to refine the edge with stropping.

 

ACR...looks like your on you way and doing a good job. Don't be afraid to try other methods of sharpening. I use a combination of several different types depending on what needs to be accomplished.

 

As for the planes; a block plane is indispensable. Get a couple of different types to provide versatility. You'll never regret it. As for the hand planes start with a Jack (#5) and add as you feel necessary based upon the projects' need.

 

I use a #5 and a #5 1/2 (Thanks HandyDan), a #4 and occasionally a #5 1/4 for most of the work. But my users span from #3-#7's. DO NOT pass up a good solid used one. They can be cleaned up and put back into service for cheap with a little TLC. Yes, the LN and others are really nice but starting out the used one's, that are tuned properly are perfectly serviceable and you can do several for the cost of a premium one. Get a feel for the uses and then pop for the premium ones to replace the ones you use the most.

 

If you are looking for a particular size let me know. I may have a spare or can sometimes find a good one. Steven Newman will certainly be able to help, also, I suspect.

Edited December 28, 2016 by schnewj