Ok I gave the search function a shot & got nothing.

If the answer to my question is in there can someone point me to it please.

 

I'm turning and finishing some bowls. Sanded them up to 3000 grit (silicon carbide)----because she said so.! No stain, just Helmsman varnish.

 

Anyway, I can't get the opposing areas of end grain to sand smooth (inside or out). I'm still experiencing what I consider tear out.

 

Any suggestions to alleviate this? Is it a function of inexperience, or technique?

I'm using Easywood carbide tools if it matters. And -no- I haven't mastered a skew chisel yet. Lathe does not have reverse.

 

All thoughts welcome.

If you are experiencing tear out the heavier grit papers are the cure for it.  Start with 80 or 100 grit and work your way up.  Tear out occurs in the end grain and end grain is hard to sand.  If you get to 180 grit and still see the tear out go back to a grit or two.

I started @ 60!!

I noticed if I stop the lathe & hand sand across the end grain I can knock it down a bit. With the lathe revolving making headway on the endgrain is a bitch.

 

Just sanded the $hit out of a 2nd bowl with a ROS and got better results but only on the outside. The inside is still a demon. I'm in doubt that she will approve. She seems to think the wood needs to be as smooth as a baby's butt! Before applying a finish.

While your lathe cannot reverse all reverse does is change cut from above to below. Pull lathe out and turn from other side.

May I ask what tools you are using to do the turning? HSS, Carbide? Gouges, Scrapers?

 

Some species are notorious for end grain tear out. Also. the type/direction of the cut can make a difference.

 

I'll get you some links to the subject here on the Patriot. Give me a few minutes-

Here are a bunch of posts on tear out. Some are just comments in a post. You might have to search a little in each to find the exact information-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the earlier posts is from me.  

I've learned a lot about cellulose sanding sealer, lower grits to sand, hand sanding, CA glue, epoxy.

All have a place, except I couldn't tell you which one(s) to use for any particular problem.

 

Ah, but I have also discovered PC-Petrifier. It hardens wood quite well. Then, sanding becomes

much easier.  This has become a frequent go to product for me.

The Materials data sheet for this says it is a combination of a urethane hybrid and acrylic latex. It

flows like water, soaks in easily and deep, then hardens everything to make it easy to sand and finish.

I've tried several finishes over it with success. 

 

So, I've pretty much backed away from cellulose sanding sealer in favor of this other product.  

59 minutes ago, lew said:

what tools you are using to do the turning?

Easywood carbide large set. Using all 3 cutters at some time during the turning. 

Is it possible that I need to turn or sand  at a higher speed? I've been turning/sanding at the lower end of speed scale. I don't know what the rpm is. Is a Harbor Freight "big" lathe. probably @ 600 +.

1 hour ago, Gunny said:

Pull lathe out and turn from other side.

When I first read your reply I thought you were kidding. But after a reread I got it. Novel idea. Thks

42 minutes ago, Bob Hodge said:

PC-Petrifier. It hardens wood quite well.

 

For punky or soft wood?????

I'm turning American elm but I don't recall what bowl #1 was but it definitely wasn't soft wood.

For the outside of a bowl, I have found the the EWT "rougher" with either the R2 or R4 radius cutter (depending on the size of the tool). These are not the negative rake cutters. I run the lathe as fast as safely possible and I have been getting excellent results. Equal or better than a shear cut with a bowl gouge.

 

For the inside, I use an EWT #1 hollower. Rough it out then very light cuts. Then finish with the same tool using a negative rake cutter. For softer wood, I us Starbond thin clear CA to stabilize the wood. 

2 minutes ago, lew said:

These are not the negative rake cutters

Didn't know that they  made anything but negative rake.

Will be looking into it

Thks

@lew --   I wonder what the set that I won was/is.
I'll have to check it out. I thought that they were negative rake.

Maybe they're not.

Will find out.

 

Here's a pdf with their different cutters and the tools that use them-

2277b6_664c3a527fde4cb5a8de845e12550c57.pdf

 

 

@lew --   I wonder what the set that I won was/is.
I'll have to check it out. I thought that they were negative rake.

Maybe they're not.

Will find out.

 

Edit:

Upon inspection the cutters that came with the tools were standard cutters.

Those are the ones I been using. However I also bot a set of negative rake cutters, so I'll be trying them out soon.

Thanks to everyone  for trying to help me out.

 

You're all  THE BEST.

 

smitty

24 minutes ago, smitty10101 said:

Upon inspection the cutters that came with the tools were standard cutters

I had trouble using the standard Ci1-SQ cutter on the outside of bowls. The corners tended to dig in. When I switched to the Ci1-R2 the results were much better.

 

Another thing, and don't tell Jim at EWT, I twist the rougher so the cutter is at about a 45° angle from horizontal. The tool is perpendicular to the turning and on the centerline as EWT recommends. This creates more of a shear than a scrape cut.

Something to consider is how much tear out fo you have , 1/16 or less? That is a lot of work to clean up. If it is more that is Rough. What Lew just said about angle of the cutter works for all scrapers carbide or tool steel .
 

The best way is to not get tear out to begin with but that is another story. 
 

turning in reverse raises the grain in a different direction and is best for the second sanding but not any good here. Best bet without a BOB (bottom of the bowl) gouge would be turn lathe off and sand. Traditional scrapers are also good here but light touch or catches will get you. That is IV the tear out is in bottom as I understand. 
 

sanding to over 350 just increased your work and makes finishing harder. When finish goes on no one will know how far you sanded.

8 minutes ago, Gerald said:

sanding to over 350 just increased your work and makes finishing harder. When finish goes on no one will know how far you sanded.

Tell that to SWMBO!

She turns pens and equates bowls & pens equally. Trying to tell her that it doesn't have to be ultra smooth is useless and not recommended.