1 hour ago, JIMMIEM said:

What do you use instead of MDF?

Baltic Birch, American made plywood and real wood

16 minutes ago, Stick486 said:

Baltic Birch, American made plywood and real wood

American made plywood....does Russin count....American company with overseas plants.

4 minutes ago, JIMMIEM said:

American made plywood....does Russin count....American company with overseas plants.

pretty much no..

the quality here is better than over there....

that includes S America and China..

especially China...

Remember The Router Workshop guys?    They used a "board" made from wheat straw.....

I have to applaud the use of locally sourced organic products. While MDF, in any form, has no place in my activities, it is a useful product for some applications. Many products over the years have been made/based on organic products (isn't wood fiber in ordinary MDF an organic product?). So, using the rice chaff is nothing new or earthshaking.

 

There are two take-a-ways here...one, it is formaldehyde free, and two, it is not made off-shore.

 

As long as it performs on par with the readily available MDF then there isn't a problem. People are NOT going to just stop using it for some products. The real point is, that, there are now 70 new AMERICAN jobs that have been created, with another 400 temporary, seasonal, jobs. 

 

Remember, the ocean is made up of a lot of drops of water. Every new job created is a step forward for the US getting its manufacturing reputation back.

Just think of how many jobs Harbor Freight creates locally. shipping, warehouse,sales.

 

Herb

2 hours ago, Dadio said:

Just think of how many jobs Harbor Freight creates locally. shipping, warehouse,sales.

 

Herb

Yah! I suppose they do have to employ a lot of folks to keep shipping and processing all of the return products and warranty issues!

HF stands behind their product warranties too.

 

 

Georgia has a humidity level of 70%-100% in the summertime , so a sling of MDF will be busting it's bands be the time they ship it.

Herb

Edited August 19, 20188 yr by Dadio

5 hours ago, schnewj said:

As long as it performs on par with the readily available MDF then there isn't a problem. People are NOT going to just stop using it for some products. The real point is, that, there are now 70 new AMERICAN jobs that have been created, with another 400 temporary, seasonal, jobs. 

agreed...

and that's money that stays here to take care of own....

 

I would be curious to know what exposure levels have to be reached before using MDF constitutes a health hazard.  MDF is readily available, reasonably priced, and super flat.  If I was working with it 8 hours a day and generating a lot of dust, then I might be concerned, but for the occasional shop jig, back-up piece to prevent a tear out, etc., yeah, it has a place in my shop.  It's not a good choice for everything, but neither is it a bad choice for everything. 

3 minutes ago, PostalTom said:

It's not a good choice

because of it's mechanical properties...

• MDF is hard on tooling
• MDF tends to be high maintenance - if you chip it or crack it, you cannot repair or cover the damage easily as you typically can with solid wood.
• The chemicals used in making MDF make the material less child-friendly than other materials.
• Direct exposure to water (it will suck up water like a sponge) can cause MDF to swell.
• The glue present in MDF can make it hard to sink certain types of fasteners into the material. 
• MDF is comparatively weaker than wood.
• Furniture made up of MDF don’t last long. Though MDF is cheap, it, on the other hand, is a loss of money.
• MDF can crack or split under stress.
• MDF can't hold it's own weight.
• MDF doesn’t take to nailing and screws easily. Holding power is close to dismal.
• MDF contains VOC, containing urea formaldehyde, that can cause irritation to lungs and eyes.
• Dust produced during the cutting/tooling of MDF is very harmful to breathing.

Other than that everything is fine.

Herb

I've had good luck with it.  Besides, if it was harmful, the government wouldn't let it be sold, right? 

Edited August 20, 20188 yr by PostalTom

3 minutes ago, PostalTom said:

I've had good luck with it.  Besides, if it was harmful, the government wouldn't let it be sold, right? 

we make our own choices...

 

7 hours ago, PostalTom said:

I've had good luck with it.  Besides, if it was harmful, the government wouldn't let it be sold, right? 

Just because the government allows it to be sold and used doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe to do so. Years ago chemicals like, Trichloroethylene and Polyethylene were in common use. They were used for anything from dry cleaning to engine degreasing (including making decaffeinated coffee). Used, contaminated, product was just dumped onto the ground and allowed to soak into the aquifer.

 

In the '70's they discovered, that, these chemicals were carcinogenic (potentially cancer causing) and became highly regulated. The maximum permissible exposures to these chemicals, without precautions was in the 1000s of parts per million. If I recall correctly, Trich was around 2000 ppm, by the late 80's it was down to 1000 ppm, and by the early 90's was lowered down to 200 ppm.

 

They found that once in the body it got into the bloodstream and NEVER left.

 

Just because you can buy it now, doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe. Long term exposure effects may not be readily evident. Only long term effect studies can show this. Is MDF bad? Maybe, maybe not! It does off-gas Formaldehyde, but then again, so does new (upholstered) furniture, carpet, and many other things.

 

At this point (for most of us) long term exposure effects are not necessarily high on our priority lists, however, do you want your grand kids exposed to a potentially dangerous chemical for the next sixty or so years?

11 hours ago, PostalTom said:

I would be curious to know what exposure levels have to be reached before using MDF constitutes a health hazard.  MDF is readily available, reasonably priced, and super flat.  If I was working with it 8 hours a day and generating a lot of dust, then I might be concerned, but for the occasional shop jig, back-up piece to prevent a tear out, etc., yeah, it has a place in my shop.  It's not a good choice for everything, but neither is it a bad choice for everything. 

Bill gave you the chemical answers now for something on dust exposure. I cannot say MDF dust is more hazardous than any other per the same volume but the particles are smaller and so there is a large amount of dust created. Once dust is inhaled into the lungs very little leaves. There are some woods that produce toxic dust and some cause increased likelyhood of allergies (still a toxicity). So since exposure to wood dust causes damages that are cumulative all those small exposures add up to cause damage to our lungs that is not reversable. When we were young (a long time ago for most of us with time to get on here and type up all this stuff) our body responded much better to these toxins but as they built up the body does not respond well and we get that nasty stuff such as emphysema or even lung cancer.

    So the thing to remember is protect yourself from even that one small cut you will be making. 

@Gerald, excellent points. Thanks.We should all take heed.

@ Schnewj

That sure cut down on the cancer rate.

 

@Gerald,

Thats it, no more wood working for me.

 

Don't forget the "a" word just saying it will cause death.

 

Herb

 

And don' forget the LED lights causes irreparable retinal  damage, so only turn them on when not in the shop.

 

Herb

Oooh, I'm too scared to venture into the shop, now. Guess I'll just go eat some Twinkies. With a shelf life of seven years, they gotta be good for yer gut, right?