The US Government is About to Change Table Saws

[Gerald]

4 hours ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Just another example of the scariest words ever uttered, "hello I'm from the federal government. I'm here to help."

Yeah run like hell when you hear these words. 
 

[Al B]

I have enjoyed woodworkikg as a hobby for many years until recently at 92, when health issues stopped me. Never would I have been to afford the hobby if sawstop had been able to force manufacurers to purchase their patented technology on them. Those who might have been willing to putchase the technology have been refused permission. Manufactures like craftsman, DeWalt, jet. Bosch, and other smaller saw manufacturers would be put out of business. Hobbiest like me would never have been able to afford to get into the hobby. Small contractors might never have gone into business. The sawstop greed continues 

[Artie]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:41 PM, Gene Howe said:

That will likely put Shopsmith out of business.  

That was my first thought!

[Artie]

If I won the lottery, and was building a dream shop, I’m pretty sure I’d have a sawstop. I haven’t won the lottery yet, so I have a Shopsmith. I read, watch videos, and follow subjects here, and try to learn how to make sawdust safely. I made a decision on how my finances (meager as they were LOL) were spent. The technology does exist, and anyone who wants to CAN buy a saw with the technology. I dunno about forcing everyone to buy the technology. There is a line here, wish I knew exactly where it is. Most Sears radial arm saws are gone, or at least have buyback programs on them, we use riving knifes, pulley/belt guards, blade guards, all of which had a cost, but those costs seem to have been low financially, for big safety gains. If we were talking $50 average for all new saws, I dunno if I would be against it. These numbers are gonna keep the second hand market alive for a LONG time. I gotta think there will be lawsuits delaying/denying implementation.  

[kmealy]

The modern three-point safety belt was perfected by Volvo engineer Nils Bohlin in 1959 – and its patent given for free to the world. The invention has been credited with saving at least a million lives worldwide.

[Al B]

But @Artie, we're not talking $50.00 were talking hundreds of dollars. And with the sawstop technology, if you activate the  stop you have to invest in a new blade. Your blade is destroyed,

[Larry Buskirk]

11 hours ago, Artie said:

we use riving knifes, pulley/belt guards, blade guards,

 

 Two out of Three ain't bad. 

[Artie]

12 hours ago, Al B said:

But @Artie, we're not talking $50.00 were talking hundreds of dollars. And with the sawstop technology, if you activate the  stop you have to invest in a new blade. Your blade is destroyed,

That’s the point I guess I failed to make. There is a cost with safety, sometimes the cost outweighs the safety; $50, and we’re just upset about maybe a government over reach. adding $2K to a $3K saw, is just gonna make people buy up all the old ones and not go forwards. Don’t get me wrong, if my shop budget was vast, I’d own one! But it would be my CHOICE, not a mandate.

[Larry Buskirk]

12 hours ago, Artie said:

buy up all the old ones

 

Buy? 

They show up like stray cats around here. 

[HARO50]

4 hours ago, Larry Buskirk said:

 

Buy? 

They show up like stray cats around here. 

Larry, you're gonna be RICH!!!

[Larry Buskirk]

49 minutes ago, HARO50 said:

Larry, you're gonna be RICH!!!

 

You know what happens once you adopt them though. 

[kmealy]

breaking news:

 

https://www.woodshopnews.com/news/sawstop-offers-its-patent

 

[kmealy]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:45 AM, Al B said:

But @Artie, we're not talking $50.00 were talking hundreds of dollars. And with the sawstop technology, if you activate the  stop you have to invest in a new blade. Your blade is destroyed,

And a new brake system.  $99 

 

[kmealy]

 

[kmealy]

Some interesting points, including, " In 2017, a Republican commissioner argued that regulation was unnecessary, pointing out that consumers knew how dangerous the saws were but most made the choice not to pay the SawStop premium"

 

"...once it started selling its own saws, SawStop developed a reputation for litigiousness: In 2015 it sued Bosch to stop it from selling a table saw that had a similar safety feature, citing patent infringement"

 

"It would go into effect after three years. SawStop’s chief executive, Matt Howard, has pledged to open one of the company’s key patents to competitors when that happens.

He said it would be “incomprehensible” if other companies did not have their own offerings in three years, and blamed them for failing to invest in research and development.

But the Power Tools Institute, an industry group, has said rival companies won’t be able to start development before SawStop releases the patent, because SawStop could sue the companies for using the patent in prototypes.

Bosch, which settled with SawStop over its competing product, said it would take six years to bring it back to market. Shabir Balolia, the chief operating officer of Grizzly Industrial, another competitor, said it would probably take four years to develop a new saw after the patent was released."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/30/upshot/table-saws-safety-cost.html?unlocked_article_code=1.hE0.SevX.JjkJeN6J72vY&smid=url-share&fbclid=IwAR0s165_U-8M1v8dVIU8HRBQx0b9PAuZZK0JGTOtQ3GJ1DRGGsY-joibuY8_aem_AXSiL4_HoQQI_DYumugk5_4sujJuUQjCoP9jNCUKhjbFUD1z9GpnTT5f0X-6SMWbcjZSD2m7HFhMZ82D97sSe0kI

Edited April 1, 2024 by kmealy

[kmealy]

 

[kmealy]

Well, maybe  not so soon   https://toolguyd.com/table-saw-safety-ruling-monopoly-act/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3XMhbL2t11aZGlZbDIM9fTwa_WYc7j5EOItSMbyLPgcE1Jun9Ps6fpSJI_aem_AWp8o8A9h3j2kq0B-hgohxI6hPXBK4hbVEzQA54BK0BF7gIKzBY2OnC4DPpu12lHsf22VeiitGq_BrF6Reu-LsfI

[John Morris]

I thought Sawstop in their last congressional appearance opened up their patent? They made it open source.

Since the market would be wide open, the cost will probably be negligible. More along the lines of Arties thinking, a 50 dollar hike? With a healthy second hand market, the manufacturers will be forced to compete.

SawStop Dedicates Its Patent for Public Use, Boosting CPSC Rule to End Table Saw Amputations | CPSC.gov

WWW.CPSC.GOV

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SawStop Dedicates Its Patent for Public Use, Boosting CPSC Rule to End Table...

 

[JWD]

Interesting in the abstract, but not really relevant to me personally.  I would feel for the newbies in the hobby if I hadn't spent a couple years on reddit where they demonize anyone who isn't paying full lip service to Euro-style mandated safety.  If you don't have a riving knife, on reddit you are an Astralopithecus (can't use Neaderthal, that is reserved for the world of hand tools now!  ).

 

Riving knives, for example, are a great innovation.  But you need not have one to cut safely, you just need anything else that can do the same function.  I learned to cut with two sticks in a shop I worked for around 1998, been doing it that way ever since:

Rip cut with two sticks

I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to do the same, that is the one I know.  That left hand stick has a birdsmouth cut on the end, sanded to a wedge on the opposite side of the birdsmouth.  It controls the work post blade, holding the kerf open, and holding the work down and against the fence.  Best part is it's made of scrap, push sticks should be consumables in my view of it - sometimes they need to run into the blade so nothing soft and pink does.

 

So that's my 2 cents.  I have no problem with people wanting sawstops, but they would never suit me in all probability.  I'm a cheapskate and like old machines, and I've found it easy enough to be safe over the years.  Now if I owned a shop and had employees, I bet I would buy a sawstop and make them use it.  Way cheaper than an accident, even if your business carries insurance!