MWTCA October 2018 'What's It' Project (147-3)

[John Morris]

On 10/3/2018 at 5:42 AM, Chips N Dust said:

Looks like a combination center punch and hand twist drill. Stick is probably on the right track

Howya doin Chips!

[HARO50]

I checked an enlarged version of the pictures, which clearly show that the case was machine stitched, placing it sometime after1850, probably early 1900's, since the machines were not very popular at first. That sort of casts doubt on the cannon tool theory. The belt loop, however, would be perfectly situated for attachment to a "Sam Browne" style belt.

John

Edited October 5, 2018 by HARO50

[Gene Howe]

The case may have been purchased long after the tool was. 

[HARO50]

Possibly, but would YOU spend money on a case for a tool that was no longer being used?

John

[Stick486]

6 minutes ago, HARO50 said:

Possibly, but would YOU spend money on a case for a tool that was no longer being used?

John

yes...

if I valued the tool enough..

[Gerald]

Don't forget that there are many reenactors out there but not that many canoneers as it is a specialty and the weapons are costly to buy and transport. Had a customer once who did it and owned two canons and was deaf as a post.

This is a link to Civil War artillery tools and the fuse reamer is the center of attention. Note the gimlet point and there may have been several models of this tool with self contained artillery shells not making common appearance  till maybe 25 years after the war.

Civil War fuse reamer

[Grandpadave52]

6 minutes ago, Gerald said:

Note the gimlet point and there may have been several models of this tool

Sure looks like the gimlet end of the mystery tool. Makes sense with the leather holster and strap loop direction. Worn on suspenders or pack strap perhaps.

[steven newman]

In the movie, "Gods and Generals"  while setting up the Stonewall Brigade's battery...commands were:

 

"Prepare the battery to fire!   Range, 800 yards!  Five inch, five second fuze!"

 

Fuzes were a cone, that fit into the shell's casing....when the cannon was fired, the fuze was ignited, and burned at a (usually, not always) set rate....To insert a fuze into the "well", sometimes you needed to clean/ream the hole for a tight fit.  They had a LOT of trouble with getting exact burn rates in the fuzes...not all burn the same rate.   There were charts to show the ranges, that came with each case of fuzes....

 

Too long of a fuze...someone would be able to yank the thing out of the shell, install a fuze of their own, and "return" the shell to it's sender.....

 

IF you look at some of the modern Arty pieces....they used a "primer" through the breech, that set the powder bags off....the was a "Primerman" working in the pit under the 16" naval rifles, his job was to remove the spent primer, clean the well, and install the new primer. 

 

Us "Cannon-cockers"  can be a little slow to change....

 

Civil War style cannons also used a pricker.   The bagged charge was loaded then the round.    At the vent/touch hole, the Gunner's leather covered thumb kept air from re-igniting any "leftovers" in the barrel.   When the order to "Prick & Prime" was given....a long metal pointy tool  was shoved down the hole, to open a small hole into the charge...the "Prime" was a friction igniter, then sent a shower of sparks down the hole and into the charge (BOOM!)....both had a ring on their ends, one so the gunner could remove the pricker, the other for a lanyard to clip onto.   The friction igniter usually flew away, from the blast...use a new one for each shot. 

 

You could use the Cannoneer's Tool to "dress" the fuze hole so a fuze will fit into the shell.   The Gimlet would clean the touch hole out of the carbon build-up.   Hammer end to "spike the gun".....brass dial was to set the time on the fuze, and open the end( like cutting the end of a cigar) of the fuze.  

I doubt if you could find it, but the Pricker was stored with the rest of the Gunner's tool kit.

[Dadio]

Those cannons were used after the civil was too.

Just saying,

Herb

[HandyDan]

 

 

[steven newman]

Soooo, anything turn up?   Besides what No. 5 used to set and install fuzes back at the Limber....

 

IF you look along the top edge of the "hammer"  part, you can make out marks from where they hammered the cone into the shell...then slid the fuze into the cavity created in the shell's powder charge ( inside the shell's "shell"...hence the name).  

[p_toad]

was there a winner?   good enough to recommend to the MWTCA?

 

what's up for November? 

[John Morris]

Thank you for all the entries folks, which answer are folks leaning on at this point?

[steven newman]

Gunner's Fuze Setter Tool.  

[Grandpadave52]

7 hours ago, John Morris said:

Thank you for all the entries folks, which answer are folks leaning on at this point?

I think Mr. Newman has pretty strong arguments with his information & research; Has my vote.

[DuckSoup]

I'll have to vote for @steven newman on this one.

[John Morris]

I am sorry I have not been productive in this What's It, but I do have a few questions on @steven newman suggestion for a cannon tool, it makes sense. My questions though, at what time period would this one have been used if it is a canon tool?

The welds look too sophisticated for a civil war era tool, and that brass knurled knob, were they doing those back in the day? And what would that brass knurled knob be used for?

Thanks!

[steven newman]

Welds may have been a repair. 

 

The brass trimmer for the end of a fuse gave a neater, more reliable cut...as cannon fuzes were cut to length, to set the time of flight before the shell would explode.

Besides, it would be easier than using a jack knife, when shot and shell was flying around..

 

IIRC..there were two crew-members at the rear with the limber, one to prepare the round the Gunner ordered, the other to place the completed round into the leather bag, so #3 could safely carry the round to the gun, hand off the round to the loader, and then return to the limber. 

 

You wanted a tight fit for the fuze, would be "bad" form if it fell out before the shell could explode...

Tapered rod to form, or, reform the cavity.   Gimlet can be used on some models of shells....Gimlet was also used to clean the touch hole from carbon build up ( remember cleaning an M16 after a day of firing blanks?)

 

Muzzle-loading cannons were still in use on some of the Pre-dreadnaught battleships....HMS Canopus (sp)ran it's 4 main battery guns all the way out,AFTER they were loaded inside the turrets.  Took a long time to get breech-loaders to get it right.   1880s?

 

Tool MAY have been Army, or Navy issue...or both.  12pder Napoleons, Parrot rifles, Dahlgrens.    Tool may have been on the same warship as Thomas Dewey.

 

I think there used to be markings along the tapered part....marked in inches, with "0" at the pointed end.    Then mark the length ordered ( 5", 5 second fuze!) and trim the excess off.   fat end of the cone shaped fuze towards the zreo...slide the fuse down until you reached the time/inch marking needed.   mark and trim the excess with the brass cutter.....no sparks to set off the fuze, that way..

Edited November 2, 2018 by steven newman
setting the time fuze.

[John Morris]

@steven newman, shoot me a picture of one that is similar to ours, we gotta have something, thanks!

 

Still trying to figure out what the brass knurled knob is for. The welds are too perfect, manufactured welds where the main shaft joins the barrel shaped portion with the hinged gimlet. But I need an image that will convince our MWTCA friends, thanks Steve, and thanks a ton for the historical lessons on canons. Enjoyed the reading!

[John Morris]

I am going to make a command decision here, the item has not been verified appropriately for a clear description of what it may be, but Steven Newman put a whole lot of effort in, and I really enjoyed his lessons on cannoning. 

So this month we are going to award @steven newman a new membership for the year of 2019 for MWTCA for his grand efforts in the October What's It.

Thank you Steve for your gallant attempt on this one, thanks again for your in depth lessons in this topic.

 

Steve, please shoot me via PM your shipping address, along with the name of Mrs. Newman (MWTCA requirements, not ours) and your telephone number.

Thanks again all for your participation in October's MWTCA What's It project!