1 hour ago, schnewj said:

 

The problem is...sometimes the plan isn't right either.

Or the surveyor was drunk

The good guys will discover inaccuracy's/mistakes in plans.

 

 

16 hours ago, John Morris said:

Hey, that's my bridge! 

What do you use it for?

26 minutes ago, HandyDan said:

What do you use it for?

I survey/build bridges and roads Dan, I was in a self-deprecating moment there when I made that statement. As well as the "drunk surveyor" statement in another reply.

3 minutes ago, John Morris said:

I survey/build bridges and roads Dan, I was in a self-deprecating moment there when I made that statement. As well as the "drunk surveyor" statement in another reply.

I knew you were joking.  Just being coy about the bridge being useless as is.

2 minutes ago, HandyDan said:

I knew you were joking.  Just being coy about the bridge being useless as is.

Got it! Sorry, I'm dense sometimes! And a wonderfully coy statement it was! 

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 3:04 PM, Richard McComas said:

I don't care how good you think you are, sometimes it pays to follow the plan.

Thank you Richard.  I was starting to feel inadequate here.  I almost always work from a set of plans.  I just don't have the design skills yet.  Maybe you  have heard the saying that an elephant is a mouse built to government specs?  Well, that's me.  Early on, I built a couple of chests of drawers for the bedroom, they were a hybrid of two different sets of plans, and when done, I felt the whole project was over-engineered.  Learned a lot though from that project, so that was a positive.

On 9/1/2016 at 4:04 PM, Richard McComas said:

I don't care how good you think you are, sometimes it pays to follow the plan.

 

 

Just a note here - scrollers use "patterns"  not "plans".  Super hard to have a brain that keep track of cutting in a scrolling piece of work.

7 hours ago, PostalTom said:

Thank you Richard.  I was starting to feel inadequate here.  I almost always work from a set of plans.  I just don't have the design skills yet.  Maybe you  have heard the saying that an elephant is a mouse built to government specs?  Well, that's me.  Early on, I built a couple of chests of drawers for the bedroom, they were a hybrid of two different sets of plans, and when done, I felt the whole project was over-engineered.  Learned a lot though from that project, so that was a positive.

You are welcome. Almost every job I have applied for says on the application "must be able to read and interpret plans and work from plans". I wonder why that is?

I run across this "I work from no plans superiority complex" quite often. For some reason they tend to think they are better  woodworkers because of it. I work both way depending on the job. As someone already mentioned a good set of plans can save you a lot of time. On my day job at the School District I work form plans quite a bit. Some are professional done and some are hen scratch on a piece of paper from a teacher trying to tell me what the want and sometimes I just have to wing it.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the no plans guys could even build sometime form a set of plans have have come out the right dimension so it would fit where it goes.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 20169 yr by Richard McComas

.

6 hours ago, Richard McComas said:

You are welcome. Almost every job I have applied for says on the application "must be able to read and interpret plans and work from plans". I wonder why that is?

I run across this "I work from no plans superiority complex" quite often. For some reason they tend to think they are better  woodworkers because of it. I work both way depending on the job. As someone already mentioned a good set of plans can save you a lot of time. On my day job at the School District I work form plans quite a bit. Some are professional done and some are hen scratch on a piece of paper from a teacher trying to tell me what the want and sometimes I just have to wing it.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the no plans guys could even build sometime form a set of plans have have come out the right dimension so it would fit where it goes.

^ Maybe ask Sam Maloof about THAT sort of thing.....

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, steven newman said:

.

 

By all accounts Sam was one of the "good guys" that would never try to make someone/anyone feel inadequate because they used plans.

Edited September 3, 20169 yr by Richard McComas

On 9/1/2016 at 5:43 PM, Richard McComas said:

The good guys will discover inaccuracy's/mistakes in plans.

Richard, in my industry plans are approved with 90 percent accuracy, the reality is I am working off a plan set with over 400 and up to a thousand sheets of profiles, layouts, specs, details, and it would impossible for engineers to submit a set of plans at 100 percent, it just can't be done, with the calculations, and all the hands that are involved in creating the design, and the plans to build it, you have to at some point depend on the men and women on the ground to catch the inaccuracies and make them right on the fly. We do that quite often, we do a lot of field fit on our survey crew, calculating on the fly, and with the experience of what works and what doesn't, and with a book full of standards and specifications on the State level, we have to sometimes, just make it work for the sake of expediency. Perfect plans in my world, just do not exist. We have to be on our toes always, on the look out for busts and inaccuracies.

 

You made a good point about the good guys will discover the mistakes, that's what it's all about.

19 hours ago, PostalTom said:

Thank you Richard.  I was starting to feel inadequate here.  I almost always work from a set of plans.  I just don't have the design skills yet.  Maybe you  have heard the saying that an elephant is a mouse built to government specs?  Well, that's me.  Early on, I built a couple of chests of drawers for the bedroom, they were a hybrid of two different sets of plans, and when done, I felt the whole project was over-engineered.  Learned a lot though from that project, so that was a positive.

Plans are a good thing Tom! You cannot go into commercial business without plans, they are a must. You need them to forecast expenses, and streamline process's. And to view pitfalls of a project. If your project is complex enough, a mock-up is sometimes in order as well. There is nothing inadequate about using plans. And I don't think DAB was heading in that direction, the conversation just kind of did with a couple one liners thrown out there, it's fun, that's all.

 

I kinda get it, now. If by "plans" we mean more than just commercially developed ones, most of us use plans of one sort or another. Many kitchens have been built from story sticks. In my old shop, the walls were covered with hand drawn plans. And, like Richard, I've worked from verbal plans and sketches on napkins.

Plans are plans, I guess.

then there are the plans that were drawn up by waving hands in the air...

 

cust.. I want a bookcase 4'6'' wide and 7' tall to hold paper back books two deep...

here's the plan...

me ... okay..

build it and deliver...

doesn't fit...

space is only 46'' wide...

do you know how long it took to get it across to the customer the difference between 46'' and 4'6''...

so I made them another one.. same price..

Stick, your fault for not measuring the space.

13 minutes ago, Richard McComas said:

Stick, your fault for not measuring the space.

yeah.. right...

I tried to set up an appointment to measure...

they said no need..

don't bother.. yadda yadda yadda.... 

OK I not a very articulate kind of guy but I try one more time to get my point across.

On some of these forum you'll run into those who think that if you ask for plans that some how you are deficient and because they build without plans they are better than you. Below are some of the kind of remarks you get from those kind of guys.

 

I recently ask for plans on another forum and got replies like this.

 

" Seriously??
A man of you skill and knowledge can’t look at this and figure out how to build it"?

 

 

"You have a picture of it & you still need plans? You wanna pay me to AutoCAD it for you?! I’ll get you started – the legs are 1-1/2” square – get out your dividers and have at it"!

 

"Try Ted’s Woodworking Plans ";)

 

After making some some what derogatory comments to those types of answers a guy going with the handle of Bandit pops up saying  I have a bad attitude. lol

 

I really think some the them could build from a set of plans and that's why they don't.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Stick486 said:

yeah.. right...

I tried to set up an appointment to measure...

they said no need..

don't bother.. yadda yadda yadda.... 

That reminds me of some of the post I have read over on the woodweb forum. This cabinet maker was sued by a customer for doing what the client wanted. The cabinet maker warned the customer if he did it the way they wanted it would cause problem down the road and had the client sigh off on it.

 

The judge found in favor of the client and told the cabinet maker that he was the professional and should have not done something that doesn't work,no matter what the customer wanted.