Just now, Richard McComas said:

OK I not a very articulate kind of guy but I try one more time to get my point across.

On some of these forum you'll run into those who think that if you ask for plans that some how you are deficient and because they build without plans they are better than you.

Hey Rich, you got your point across the first time just well!

The other guys on the other forums are dead wrong. And any baggage that was created on "other forums" should stay there. TPW, non-drama, no egos, helpful, sharing, caring, let's all rise together in woodworking!

 

If someone needs help with the most basic of all skills, we help them. And I'll tell you all why, our disabled veterans and other disabled folks, some of them lurk, some of them are here, some are challenged in many ways as a result of war, some may have a hard time comprehending the simplest of terms or directions, and we do not condescend here, we do not make others feel inadequate, and we do not slam or demean anyone. You just never know, the guy or gal, who is getting the long end of an ego stick from another woodworker, just may be the guy or gal who put their ass on the line for our nation, and they paid the price in doing so with their sight, missing limbs, TBI, PTSD or any other challenge a man or women who has served during combat may possess. And any non combat civilian who is challenged as well. You just never know who is on the other end of the mouse and keyboard, so we just treat everyone with the greatest amount of respect, and compassion.

 

Disabilities aside, it's also just a good way to be towards anyone.

On 8/29/2016 at 2:02 PM, DAB said:

"where did you get the plans?" or "can you share the plans?"

 

 

   ROTFL  I feel your pain.  I pull my  all of work out of my backside.  Never used a prepared plan.

I think this thread got a little intense, and maybe I contributed to this as well.  Maybe we should just agree that some people like prepared plans, and others like to wing it, or something in between.  It's all good.

ok, i've been doing other things (not drawing up plans  ), so let me rejoin the discussion.

 

if you can build from your imagination, or from someone's verbal description, or from a picture you saw, or a crudely drawn sketch - great!

 

if not, i, and others, will be glad to help where we can.

 

but as i noted previously, many, many projects are boxes in some form.  there are many ways of building a box, but they reduce down to a box with different dimensions, proportions, numbers of closed sides.

 

so if you are a beginner (i was one once), learn the basics.  how to do basic joinery.  how to account for wood thicknesses in your design (inner opening cannot be the same as the outer dimension).  how to build a drawer (it's a box with one open side), how to build a door, and other things that always come up.

 

i could take a picture of my "plan", and post it, and it would not help you at all, because it only contains the minimal information that "I" need to build it.  if i had to draw a set of plans for a stranger, i'd have to carefully draw out every item, dimension every part, show every connection, and assume you knew almost nothing about woodworking.

 

a few years ago I designed and built our kitchen. 22 cabinets, a pantry around the fridge, 44 drawers, 13 lazy susans, a full size cabinet for the double oven, a bookcase, inset metal in one door, punched metal in another door, paying attention to grain matching and continuing the grain across drawer fronts.  all kinds of details.  the lumber and hardware cost about $7,000.  the cabinets and drawers are built with pocket screws (i've also done biscuits for cabinets and dovetail drawers).  my plans were a series of sketches on a yellow legal pad, keeping track of what the cabinet size was going to be, and another hand drawn spread sheet for all the doors.

 

now, obviously, my kitchen only fits my design, but there are plenty of common things to learn that anyone could apply to design and build their own kitchen.

 

if you want to show off fine joinery, great.  but commercial kitchen cabinet makers rarely do that.  oh, they may have dovetailed drawers as a selling point, but those drawers were made on large jigs, not hand cut by a team of elves.

 

so if you want to learn, go buy some cheap lumber and experiment.  the internet is full of useful information, or you can ask here.

 

drawers?  well, you could do dovetails, you could do lock miter, you could do dado and rabbit, you could do mitered with biscuit, you could do pocket screws, you could do butt joints with screws or nails (not recommended), and there are probably a few i'm missing presently.  but once you learn a joint, and can do it well with the tools you have, now you can make something useful and beautiful!  go forth and show us what you can do!  i'll cheer you the entire time.  if you mess up, show that too.  likely someone can tell you what you need to do next time to have success.

 

those are my rambling thoughts.

I've been following along with this thread and just had an epiphany.

 

We all work from plans. If it's a thought in your head, it's a plan. Scribbles on a napkin, it's a plan. Sketchup- a plan. Toys and Joys- same thing. I don't need plans to make something but I can guarantee that during the process of making it, I'll be doing some mental/physical evaluation of the process and probably making a few changes from the original idea. Any plan, regardless of the media, is not perfect.

 

My "plans" are free to anyone who wants them. If they were mental plans, I'll convert them to paper/digital and they're yours- just ask.

Just now, lew said:

My "plans" are free to anyone who wants them. If they were mental plans, I'll convert them to paper/digital and they're yours- just ask.

Open source, the way we all learn, collaborate, and share, way to go Lew.

1 hour ago, lew said:

I've been following along with this thread and just had an epiphany.

 

We all work from plans. If it's a thought in your head, it's a plan. Scribbles on a napkin, it's a plan. Sketchup- a plan. Toys and Joys- same thing. I don't need plans to make something but I can guarantee that during the process of making it, I'll be doing some mental/physical evaluation of the process and probably making a few changes from the original idea. Any plan, regardless of the media, is not perfect.

 

My "plans" are free to anyone who wants them. If they were mental plans, I'll convert them to paper/digital and they're yours- just ask.

 

yup.

 

i assumed, perhaps wrongly, that most folks could see and have described a project and be able to work backwards to get the same or similar results for their own purposes

 

i'm happy to show work i've done, provide basic dimensions, and answer questions on techniques.  but to produce detailed plans similar to those offered and sold by New Yankee Workshop is a lot of work on my or other's ends.  that's not something i'm prepared to do.  but a picture and dimensions, i'm ok with that.

Some of here are beginners, others are pros, while others are in between. As we started woodworking we probably all followed a set of plans drawn up by someone. As our skills increase, we probably all rely less and less on plans than we once did. Thst being said, there are some of us that have a lot of artist in our brian and may not have needed plans even when you started woodworking. It is all about skill (native and/or learned) and comfort level. It is not right/wrong or indifferent, it is just who we are.  

I do like plans, although I usually modify them somehow, because I do not have the time and or desire to sit down and start from scratch, although on certain shop projects I have stated from scratch with just a rough sketch. 

 

So there is no right or wrong answer here, it is just what each of us likes, is comfortable with, and where we draw our inspirations from

3 hours ago, DAB said:

those are my rambling thoughts

Sometimes those are the best ones DAB, I love rambling thoughts, they come from the top of the conscience! 

No plans here. I just do it my way....

Well I have to confess I think plans are a great idea, but I have yet to buy/use one! I have so far made all my things by making my own designs and creating enough of a plan from there.

 

Gives me the flexibility to change things as I go, learn different ways to approach things and figure things out.

I often find plans or sites explaining how to make a thing confusing, or discouraging because I don't have the tools they use (for a simple project!!) or I haven't yet learned/got enough confidence in my ability to make whatever I thought I might like to from them.

 

I think fully written out plans (with pictures) have a place in many woodworker's repertoire. Whether or not you as your own personal creator need or want them is entirely your choice.

 

Me, I'm just loving the journey of discovery and joy in what I create.

 

I was thinking about a miter saw station and browsing came up with several.  Many of the videos were linked to buying the plans, which is fine.  But watching the videos, I thought people were sometimes a) wanting to show off their tools by using as many as possible, or b) using so many tools in some kind of sponsorship arrangement with tool manufacturers.

 

I don't do intricate projects, so often I can make what I want after seeing and modifying other ideas.  Economy of materials, what's available, and how much room I have are also major factors.

Jim

Often overlooked benefits of some commercially available plans, especially those from woodworking mags, are the techniques they may illustrate. A lot of guys would instinctively use a certain technique and, find those in the plan, redundant. But, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Very frequently, those suggestion are extremely valuable. And, many carry over to other projects.

Great point, Gene.  There are quite a few woodworking web sites that offer suggestions as well - also free plans.

 

Happy Thanksgiving, y'all.

On 8/29/2016 at 2:02 PM, DAB said:

i don't build from other's plans.

Me too.  I've never built from a "plan"  most of the time I just pull it our of my back side as I go along.

It's sort of like this

 

3 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Often overlooked benefits of some commercially available plans, especially those from woodworking mags, are the techniques they may illustrate. A lot of guys would instinctively use a certain technique and, find those in the plan, redundant. But, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Very frequently, those suggestion are extremely valuable. And, many carry over to other projects.

Excellent point, Gene.  

In those cases, I often find that I didn't even know what I didn't know.

Jim

thought this thread was long dead and buried.  guess not.

 

my winter project is to build a pair of Adirondak chairs for the patio, at the request of my wife.  who bought me a set of plans and needed hardware (Rockler).  first, need to figure how much lumber i need.  a bunch.  so this will be a first, building something from a  set of plans and templates.

 

what could go wrong???!!!

1 hour ago, DAB said:

thought this thread was long dead and buried.  guess not.

 

my winter project is to build a pair of Adirondak chairs for the patio, at the request of my wife.  who bought me a set of plans and needed hardware (Rockler).  first, need to figure how much lumber i need.  a bunch.  so this will be a first, building something from a  set of plans and templates.

 

what could go wrong???!!!

A lot of the older posts have received a revival of late, and I've loved being able to catch up on some of them. There are often hidden gems.

 

Are we taking bets on whether you'll modify the plans? 

 

 

25 minutes ago, 1fizgig said:

A lot of the older posts have received a revival of late, and I've loved being able to catch up on some of them. There are often hidden gems.

 

Are we taking bets on whether you'll modify the plans? 

 

 

already planned.  these are bar height chairs, but she wants table height chairs......that's a pretty serious change.  i'll figure it out.  can't just cut the legs shorter, they splay out, and that would make the footprint too small.

Ideals are in the head but I still have plans and patterns. It's not a one time thing with me. Most that work out of head is work done their way because it came out that way. It was intentional. ...

 

I work with a lot of blue prints. But you still have to field measure because the sheet rocker just sheet rocks out of his head...