Dear electricians, @Artie

They've all been easy up to this point, just swap em out identical.

But I came across this one. Can I somehow still use what I have, or do I need to purchase a special one.

I just don't have enough holes for the black wires on the back of my new receptacle.

 

OK, no electrician here, but is one of the outlets switched, while the other one stays hot?

Edited January 8, 20215 yr by JimM

if one half of the outlet is switched, the red wire is the switched one.   Put the two white wires on the side with the silver terminals, The red wire goes on the bottom brass terminal and the black wires ,one on the upper brass terminal and one in the upper push in space.  You then need to break off the brass strip that goes between the brass screws, otherwise it will not be switched.   

 The preferred way is to connect the two black wires together with a wire nut or Wego type connector and take a piece of black wire to the upper brass terminal and break the tab off.

If it is not switched do as above but do not break off tab.   Roly

Your original receptacle is push in connections only. Use the screw, and push in connection for the black wire.

The screw connections are tied to the push in connections.

 

@John Morris,

Is your house a pre-fab?

I've only ever seen those type receptacles in pre-fabs.

First some photos, then some words. First I think Roly is an electrician, or has worked with one, cause he is dead on correct, also JimM. Typically the red wire indicates that one half of the duplex receptacle is to be switched, while the half that gets fed with the black wire is always live. What bothers me is using the push in feed, on the back of the receptacle. PLEASE DON”T USE THESE! If you look at the receptacle on the right (at the bottom of my post) You can see that you can slide a stripped wire in from the back. Then when you tighten the screw, the clamp pins the wire between the clamp the the metal plate the screw is mounted in. This is good, and I believe rated for 1 or 2 wires. On the receptacles that John posted there is 1 hole, that you push the wire into, there is NOTHING to tighten up against the wire. It is just a piece of metal, bent to provide some tension. Those rectangular shaped boxes, on the back of the receptacle, with metal showing, is where you insert a screwdriver to push the metal away from the side, removing tension, and allowing you to remove the wire. One can use these receptacles, just make splices and only attach 1 wire, by wrapping it around the screw, then tightening screw. I personally have had too many bad experiences with these types of receptacles.They are referred to as stab ins, because that is all you do to secure the wire. I have seen numerous occasions where the connections get so bad that the receptacle starts melting, and burning. I have not yet seen an actual fire, but I attribute that more to the metal box they were in. On my receptacle on the top,  the left screws are all the way out, leaving room for wires to be installed. The two screws on the right show the screws all the tightened, and the clamp is tight to the plate. If I am using a receptacle with the clamps, I will never install more than two wires on the clamp/screw connection. If I have more than two wires per side, I make splices, and only install 1 wire per side. The other photo shows where the piece of metal is, that needs to be broken off for a switched receptacle. Again as Roly, and JimM (and maybe others), pointed out, this is usually only done on the hot side (usually indicated by the brass colored screws). Sometimes a duplex receptacle is used as two separate receptacles. When this occurs the piece of metal is broken off on both sides of the receptacle. Off the top of my head the only place I have seen this done is under the kitchen sink where one half of the receptacle is for the dishwasher, and the other is for the disposal. I actually had to talk a friend through troubleshooting this when he was in Florida, a couple of years ago. Please, Please, Please, John and everyone else, do not use the stab-in feature of any receptacle. If you don’t have to tighten the screw to securely hold the wire in place, it is not good. The receptacle below is probably the cheapest version, I would ever use, not sure where this one came from. Most of the time I will only use a 20 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit, and for 15amp circuits I usually buy a 15 amp spec grade receptacle. I really got so little of an idea on what I’m doing in the shop, and I’m pretty open about it, like to joke about it, but I’m actually a pretty good electrician. I don’t use cheap receptacles for myself or friends, and will advise anyone that willlisten to me, it’s a bad place to save some money. Generally you install the receptacle once. It’s a onetime cost. There was a reason that the BORG’s were selling those receptacles for less than $5 for a box of 10, THEY”RE CHEAP! Also NEC now requires that the screws on the receptacles be torqued to the manufacturers specifications, I have a torque screwdriver. If the inspector asks to see your torque screwdriver, and you ain’t got one, you ain’t passing inspection. A couple more points before I get of the soapbox, proper grounding saves lives, bad connections start fires. Stab-ins are bad connections. John, and anyone/everyone else, this is a menial task that can be vital that it’s done right.Ask me as many questions as you need to, want to. I have certainly demonstrated a talent for not taking all the advice that I have been given here on woodworking, and learning the hard way, as my Dad used to say. We don’t want anyone learning the hard way on electrical work

 

PS I’m also a strong advocate for smoke detectors, and seat belts. I think they are two simple things the average person can use that have the greatest chance of saving their life.

  

I may have gotten my photos reversed, cause I’m so technically challenged. You can see the rust on this receptacle. I have a box of them, they’re a no name brand. If memory serves a friend bought them for his addition and I laughed at them, and used the good ones I bought, so he threw them in the back of my car

Thank you, Artie.  I was going to say that those stab in receptacles that John showed was California specials.  LOL

 

I am not an electrician, but I do know how to swap out a switch or outlet.  I have never used a stab in as to my thinking it would not be safe in the long run.  We had our house completely re-wired in 2006 to meet code for insurance purposes.  Still can't get insurance and we have been very blessed.  

 

Fire alarms, seem to like to chirp at night or go off for a few seconds in the middle of the night.  I have changed batteries and alarms.  Nothing helps.  Any recommendations?  

19 minutes ago, Artie said:

What bothers me is using the push in feed, on the back of the receptacle. PLEASE DON”T USE THESE!

@ArtieExcellent, thorough response. 

 

As stated, I'm no electrician, just do some simple stuff for myself and never in the panel box.  I did buy the 15 amp outlets for a 20 amp/12 gauge wire (I'm SORRY!)  I found that the 12 wire won't fit into the push in spot anyway, or I couldn't make it fit.  And it only takes a few seconds to screw the wire on firmly.  

28 minutes ago, Artie said:

If I have more than two wires per side, I make splices, and only install 1 wire per side.

Artie,

Are you referring to a pigtail?

~Chirps are usually an indication of a battery needing to be replaced. I also believe that the longest you should use a smoke detector for is 10 years. I know in the past some have had a 7 year life. Also in the best case scenario the smokes are hard wired together so that if one goes off, they all go off. Thus if the fire starts in the basement, in the middle of the night, and everyone is on the second floor, sleeping in the bedrooms, they have enough time to get out before the smoke, or flames get to them. BUT.... if one has a trouble, it can cause them all to chirp, at separate times, driving the inhabitants CWAZY. If this is the case, one can disconnect the red wire at all the smokes, and then wait till the bad one shows itself. The negative to this is that you lose the early warning feature while the smokes are separated from each other, and will only sound when the fire activates them. Smokes activating for just a couple of seconds would make me think there is a bad one somewhere. They should only go off during a fire, or when being tested. Now too close to the stove/oven can lend itself to nuisance trips, also too close to the bathroom door, where people shower. But these circumstances should trip the alarm, and mean the smoke will need to go through it’s alarm cycle, not just a couple of seconds. Maybe I should approach John, and get my own thread   “Talking electrons with Artie” LOLOLOL

8 minutes ago, Artie said:

driving the inhabitants CWAZY

... and especially the pets!

14 minutes ago, Larry Buskirk said:

Artie,

Are you referring to a pigtail?

A pigtail is a term I have heard since i was in the Voke School. On receptacles in a house, you usually have a Romex/cable in, and then out. When I started out you installed the 2 white wires on the neutral side of the receptacle, and the 2 black wires on the hot side. Then they made some code changes, which weren’t universally understood, and a lot of inspectors weren’t allowing two wires on each side.You had to splice the 2 wires together, with a third wire coming out of the splice and going to the proper side of the receptacle.This is what I know as a pigtail. To others, it’s just a splice. This particular rationale was that if you had two wires, on two screws of the receptacle, and one screw got loose for whatever reason, the circuit could be completed by feeding through whatever was plugged into the receptacle. This is difficult for me to explain with the written word, but I have run into it.You can get voltages on the hot side of 180 volts, and 60 volts on the neutral side. Also other weird experiences. I have asked the inspectors to show me where in the code it states that you can’t bring two wires to each side of a duplex receptacle, and they usually point to other articles in the code where there is some interperture needed to get that ruling. Long story short there were many municipalities where two wires on a side, no pass inspection. Hope this answers your question.:)    

Anyone besides me has a difficult time putting their thoughts on paper, message me,and I'll send you my phone number. We’ll set up a time and talk it through.

@Artie,

Yes you answered my question it's what I also know as a pigtail.

2 wires per side still allowed in WI. At least it was 10 years ago.

39 minutes ago, JimM said:

@ArtieExcellent, thorough response. 

 

As stated, I'm no electrician, just do some simple stuff for myself and never in the panel box.  I did buy the 15 amp outlets for a 20 amp/12 gauge wire (I'm SORRY!)  I found that the 12 wire won't fit into the push in spot anyway, or I couldn't make it fit.  And it only takes a few seconds to screw the wire on firmly.  

Jim, 15 amp receptacles on a 12 gauge wire is okay, if the breaker is a 15 amp breaker. Even the code allows for some 15 amps receptacles on 20 amp circuits in dwelling units, under certain circumstances. I’ve never seen a really shoddy 20amp receptacle, but there are SO many different grades of 15 amp receptacles. Get a cheap 50 cent 15 amp duplex receptacle, and then get a 15 amp spec grade one. Hold them in separate hands. You can FEEL the difference.cheap one weighs about half the good one. Like almost everything, you get what you pay for.We have a lot of 15 amp receptacles in our place. They are on 15 amp circuits, and are spec grade. I also only use 20 amp switches. They almost never fail on household loads, and that means I never hafta replace them. 

Thanks guys!!!!

Artie, as it turns out I did purchase that 5 dollar box of ten, guess l outta opt for the better brand, suggestions please?

What I did was duplicated the original receptacles, those push ins are the originals from the house built in 1991. I'll get screw types then.

Thank you, Artie.  After our smoke alarms reached the ripe old age of 10 years old, they were trashed and new ones in their place.  The new ones lasted about 6 months and they went into the trash can.  These are about 1 year old with new batteries.  They are hardwired with battery backups, but sometimes in the evening, they will chirp until they start sounding in unison.  Wow! That crap is loud.  Then about 2 or 3 am they will chorus together for a few seconds.  So, I turned off the circuit breaker and removed the batteries.  When I removed the batteries, I also drained the capacitors so there was no residual charge on the alarms so they could chirp.  We have been without alarms for a few months now.  It may be because I bought the cheap ones.  Going to investigate to see if there are better ones.  Artie, I really appreciate your info and advice.  

4 minutes ago, Larry Buskirk said:

@Artie,

Yes you answered my question it's what I also know as a pigtail.

2 wires per side still allowed in WI. At least it was 10 years ago.

Larry the problem with the code is they try to write it so it covers everything. The more they expand it, the more they screw it up. It NEVER said directly that you can’t bring two wires to a side on duplex receptacles. It just tried to eliminate the fluctuating voltages when a screw got loose, and the inspectors kinda got lost with it at that point. I’ve been told that receptacles covered with a metal plate must have the grounds on the top (upside down for a home duplex receptacle) A grounding screw must be green, there must be a receptacle every 6 feet of usable wall space. The metal cover is only accurate at facilities that oxygen in use (hospitals and the like) Dwelling units need a receptacle within 6 feet on all walls with usable wall space. The inspectors got all confused with this, and thought it meant every 6 feet, nope, every 12 feet, so that there is one within 6 feet. The internet has had an extremely positive effect on the code. Now they can explain what the article meant and us lowly electricians can find out what they really wanted.

John, I’m not trying to spend your hard earned money on you, But I like this forum, and need you to be around so that it continues. it’s really a simple connection issue.The stab-ins are just not a really good connection. In the town I grew up in, around the mid 80’s cable came to the area. With cable came the nice fancy TV’s (Electronic ones, no tubes). One of the customers, the electrician I was an apprentice for, called up and said her tv would shut off by itself at least twice every 1/2 hour. This occurred with 3 different tv’s. As soon as it went out, if you hit the on button, it would comeback on, every time. I started by removing a couple of receptacles. They were wired by use of back-stabbing. I rewired every outlet in the living room, so that each wire was on the terminal screw and not the back-stab. Tv’s never went off on their own again. The connection was that intermittent that it couldn’t keep an electronic device on. So I try to buy only brand names for devices ie Pass and Seymour, Leviton, Hubbell (The best, or it was anyways) 20 a person, or 15 amp spec grade will not let you down. If you’re buying them from a BORG, (and of course you are, I buy mine there, price matters) they usually offer at least 4 grades of 15 amp duplex receptacles, get the better ones. I prefer to splice so that it is only 1wire per side, on a receptacle, but a lot of the boxes used in homes are the smallest allowed by code, and squeezing the receptacle, splices, and wires in there can be difficult.