1 hour ago, Gene Howe said:

With the woods I work with, sanding with successfully finer grits will burnish the wood. Effectively, closing the pores, preventing finishing products from adhering well. At least, that's my experience.YMMV. 

That's what Stick was educating me about, thanks.

 

Thought I might add from the turners viewpoint. We sometimes go to 3K and yes it polishes the wood . Finishes vary from lacquer to wax to danish oil to walnut oil. Now true for a film finish on turnings I do not go over 600 and at least so far so problem. For oil finish ,danish & walnut, the higher grits give a better base and will produce a better sheen.

 

I know that was a little off the track of the rest of the discussion but just to show there are other ways of looking at the same thing.

So I went over my sand paper inventory and have some gaps to fill. Looks like I'll be keeping an eye out for sales....So far I have 60,100, 120, 150, 220, 320, 400, & 800. The 32-400 is very limited in quantity. Most are the sandy color papers 3M brand maybe. Some of the upper grits are wet/dry 3M. Looks like 180, 200 and anything between 220-320 is missing.

 

Nothing between 400 and 800 either. I'm sanding with a circular motion between coatings. If need be I do have a better selection of 5" discs I can use by hand if needed. I'll have to consult my sand paper references. 

 

So far the miter stand has 2 coats on the upper section of the right hand side. Sanding between coats with 120, 150, 220 respectively. It is certainly getting smoother with each coat. The prefinished parts are getting the one only coat as I had lightly sanded them and they are glass smooth. The top coat is being applied using sponge brushes which seem to do a good job if loaded properly and clean up well. 

 

While on this subject I have to admit that using a sprayer system would certainly make things go faster especially if I hadn't assembled this first and finished the parts prior to assembly. Lesson learned but I also don't have a sprayer system either. Any suggestions on a good starter hobby unit that won't break the bank but do a good job? I'd rather spend a bit more and get something that will last and work well then a temporary system that simply won't do a good job.

 

I'm guessing with the several boxes of scrap I've accumulated over the past two years I should have enough to practice on. Keep in mind this will be for a one person hobby shop and I won't be doing cars....

Edited April 12, 20197 yr by sreilly24590

For inexpensive look at the Critter siphon sprayer.  Not for a very fine spray but works for varnish very well . For small projects a siphon type airbrush works well on turnings and boxes. Both are very easy to clean.

 

on your sandpaper try to go with the same brand for all grits. Changing brand at the middle of the flow of grits can result in more scratches because all manufacturers do not use the same grit size for numbered grits.

 

Edited April 13, 20197 yr by Gerald

So I actually went to Woodcraft and spoke with a friend of mine that works there. I had seen the Earlex units before and several had been discounted as they had been discontinued but as I read further I became to understand that although more expensive, the units that were 4 stage could handle most everything short of paint.

 

Thinking about this and looking at the Apollo spray systems I thought that after having been in our house since 2002 we were fast approaching needing to repaint the interior. I don't much care for painting although I'll do it so now I'm looking more in the line of systems that will handle paint as well. This leads to the 5 stage compressor units and Apollo makes several versions with the ECO making most sense as it is for occasional use and not everyday. They make the ECO series for hobbyist and occasional use and then step up to the Power and then Precision series. Bothof the last two have longer warranties and are designed for everyday use. 

 

The precision series looks to be what you would expect in an auto body shop for repainting cars and is priced as such. I've attached Apollo's comparison chart that shows the series and capabilities. I guess I should also look at Fuji but I like the idea they are American made. I alos very much like the efficiency of saved finishes/paint which when painting a house could very much help pay for the unit.

 

Each system comes with a choice of sprayers and a 24' hose. From most of the reviews the hose seems to be the weak link but those may have been upgraded already. I'll post what I find on the Fuji's.

APOLLO-HVLP-TURBINE-COMPARISON-CHART-09.18.18-REV-F.pdf

Edited April 13, 20197 yr by sreilly24590

4 hours ago, sreilly24590 said:

the units that were 4 stage could handle most everything short of paint.

they can handle paint w/ the right orifice...

 

4 hours ago, sreilly24590 said:

I'm looking more in the line of systems that will handle paint as well.

Graco airless...

 

 

On 4/11/2019 at 8:15 PM, Gene Howe said:

With the woods I work with, sanding with successfully finer grits will burnish the wood. Effectively, closing the pores, preventing finishing products from adhering well.

 

On 4/11/2019 at 9:12 PM, kmealy said:

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-woodworking-blogs/can-you-close-the-pores-in-wood-by-sanding-with-too-fine-a-grit/

 

I suppose a microscope would provide a more definitive answer, maybe even a third explanation.  I am thinking about the sanding schedule for red oak end grain.  I normally sand the end grain up one or two extra grits.  I think something is going on in that dynamic that simply making smaller scratches isn't the answer...

13 hours ago, sreilly24590 said:

after having been in our house since 2002 we were fast approaching needing to repaint the interior

 

Spraying the interior?   I cannot imagine the amount of prep work you will do, taping off, covering stuff and such.  And, you will get a pretty thin coat of paint too, much less than if rolled on - which might be something to consider if you are changing the color...

 

On 4/12/2019 at 2:24 PM, sreilly24590 said:

So far I have 60,100, 120, 150, 220, 320, 400, & 800.

 

That guy at the woodworking show you went too was selling sandpaper, right?  I have always understood that when following a sanding schedule, you add 100 to the grit number as you go up.  Start with 80, use 180 next - and you are basically done unless you are using stain and want to go to 220.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Cal said:

 

 

I suppose a microscope would provide a more definitive answer, maybe even a third explanation.  I am thinking about the sanding schedule for red oak end grain.  I normally sand the end grain up one or two extra grits.  I think something is going on in that dynamic that simply making smaller scratches isn't the answer...

Cal, end grain soaks it up and gets darker. Sanding to a higher grit lessens that, as you know. Maybe we aren't closing the pores but, the effect is the same. SOMETHING is preventing the finish from absorbing. 

58 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

Sanding to a higher grit lessens that,

End grain will always soak up more finish than face grain, and the result will be a darker color. But if you sand it to a higher grit, it tends to burnish the surface and that limits the absorption of finish. The results is a lighter color that more closely matches the face grain. So if you plan on sanding the project to 180 grit, I would sand the end grain to about 320.

1 hour ago, Cal said:

 

Spraying the interior?   I cannot imagine the amount of prep work you will do, taping off, covering stuff and such.  And, you will get a pretty thin coat of paint too, much less than if rolled on - which might be something to consider if you are changing the color...

 

***Cal the interior is not so hard to prep and proper tip and paint mix will give a good finish if you use the right setup. See here for an idea of prep work ***

 

That guy at the woodworking show you went too was selling sandpaper, right?  I have always understood that when following a sanding schedule, you add 100 to the grit number as you go up.  Start with 80, use 180 next - and you are basically done unless you are using stain and want to go to 220.

****I haven't seen anything suggesting you jump by 100 in fact just the opposite. The material I've read indicates moving up gradually to remove the previous scratches. But maybe I need to reread.....****

1 hour ago, Cal said:

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, sreilly24590 said:

I haven't seen anything suggesting you jump by 100 in fact just the opposite.

I like moving up to the next normal grit....

ROS 150 is usually fine but hand sand to 220 or higher.

 

After much reading, web surfing, and video watching, I've come to the conclusion that my idea of "painting" versus what Rick at Woodcraft was referring to is entirely different. Although i haven't been able to confirm this yet due to a death in his family, I'm guessing that when he said paint he was referring to painting things such as bookcases and cabinet, ie smaller items then interior walls of a home. It seems that those sprayer systems are far different and can be either bought or rented for such times needed. 

 

Under those conditions I've narrowed my choice down to the Apollo ECO-4 which is a 4 stage compressor and the system is intended for occasional use and not production lines which actually drops the price about $300 or so. The Fuji looks like a great product as well but Apollo is made in the USA while Fuji is Canadian made so since I live in the US why not support a US company? 

 

And this is one example of how I usually deal with trying to decide what is the best value......days of research, asking questions, making calls, fretting and such. Glad I've already had my ulcer. Just want to make sure you're getting a good reliable product with a good reputation that will last and do a great job. Sifting through so many that won't is painstaking. Sure hope I'm right........

yep and then beat yourself for spending so much money no matter what the benefit .

And as such have ordered the Apollo ECO-4 w/E7000 gun along with the 1.0mm/1.8mm air cap sets to accommodate the full range of viscosities as well as their cleaning kit and viscosity cup. 

 

Interesting how this thread evolved from no finishing to a full blown out quality system that should, with plenty of practice and patience, have me getting pro finishes on my projects. This of course wasn't the only way to get there but for me it was the logical. I'll still need to sand and so on but the application will be easier. I wish I had done this before working on the miter saw station but I still have other coats to do after all it only has 3 so far.....

3 hours ago, sreilly24590 said:

Interesting how this thread evolved from no finishing to a full blown out quality system

I agree but the wealth of experience and knowledge brought you to getting a quality system.  Not bad, not bad at all.