4 hours ago, Ed-H said:

Hey gramps … this drill has taken a back seat to life, just getting back to it.

Fully understand that Ed. One of many reasons I've got a drawer full of them still to rehab.

 

4 hours ago, Ed-H said:

It flops from side to side, so there’s no pressure on it.  And you can see the thickness of the barrel sides, theres no way the pins can be depressed enough to pull the jaws out.  Looks like the clip has to come out.  Looking in the center of the 3rd picture, you can see a couple of coils of a spring that keep the clip expanded.  

My guess is that they inserted the 2 jaw pieces into the barrel in a compressed or joined configuration, then somehow pushed the clip in between them to force the pins into the side holes.  This is my guesstimate of how the clip is aligned.   I’m going to further “explore” the piece to see what it would take to remove the clip from the front without causing damage.  When i get time …

First, Thanks for sacrificing yours to try to figure this out. I tried a magnifying lamp attempting to look down the barrel which basically was like a Robin trying to look down a worm hole.

 

What you show makes sense and explains perhaps why the one I "easily" disassembled came apart. I found remnants of the spring (couple coils) but nothing that resembled the "hairpin" retainer. I know someone had it apart before me because the wooden spring guide is MIA. 

 

Before the weather went south here, I tried compressing the "pins" hoping I could rotate the chuck enough to dislodge from the holes. Just ended up marring the jaws. I was surprised how soft they are. I thought maybe that's how the assembly was inserted by sliding in the shaft bore then rotating into shaft holes to secure. The likelihood of me pursuing further until early spring is slim now. However, your interest has renewed mine.

 

 

Don’t get in a hurry, i will probably cut the jaws apart this weekend to get a good look at the spring clip.  

1 hour ago, Ed-H said:

Don’t get in a hurry,

Well if you insist

Ok, autopsy complete.  I had the detail of the spring wrong, but my concept was correct.  Looks like the only way to remove the jaws would be to insert something down the end of the barrel and push the spring out the nose.  The spring is about 0.085” wide, so the pusher would need to be on the order of 0.075” or a little less than 2 mm x 8 mm.   Not sure it would work.  

 

Edited December 4, 20223 yr by Ed-H
Add pic

I got to say that I am lost here Ed.  Does the flat spring merely act as a "locating collar" to hold the coiled spring in correct location & orientation?

 

Would you or @Grandpadave52 have a patent number off any of your models?  Perhaps there might be some diagrams connected with the patent that would shine some light on this.  Surely there are more than two men in the world that have attempted/restored these tools.

1 hour ago, Cal said:

I got to say that I am lost here Ed.  Does the flat spring merely act as a "locating collar" to hold the coiled spring in correct location & orientation?

So i think you need to start with the manufacturing process: how was the tool assembled in the factory.  They have a tube, into which they need to insert jaws, and then the jaws need to be held in place securely.  I’m sure you have handled a cane or crutches, maybe a garden canopy, where you depress a button in the leg and the leg can be extended or shortened.  Same concept here.  
They take the 2 jaw halves, put the coil spring between them in the small indentations, then slip the 3 pieces into the barrel or tube.   Push it deeper and, if aligned properly, the nubs on the convex side of the jaws pops into the hole in the tube.  Voila!  Done.  Except they foresaw rough life for the tool and didn't want the jaws to fall out, or get easily pulled out of place.  So they then insert the spring clip, pop it over the spring, and it prevents the jaws from “shrinking”, so the nubs remain firmly in the holes in the tube.  

Ed, Thanks so much for all of your time, dollars patience and willingness to record the journey to uncover the secret of these tools.

 

From your autopsy, it appears the spring guide/retainer width/thickness is such the spring is prevented from fully compressing at any point during installation or use. M-F surely had some sort of insertion tool (sleeve or tube) which may have indexed over drill shaft OD. Likely compressed the spring max amount where jaws were perfectly parallel with inside walls making full contact against spring guide/ retainer. This as you noted would allow assembly install with no regard or plan to ever disassemble or at least without have a replacement spring and spring guide. I'm guessing the guide/retainer is made of some degree of spring steel??

 

Anyways, all very interesting plus informative. As I'm sure you've already discovered not a great deal on the inter-web about these tools. Your discoveries are invaluable IMHO. Thanks again!!!

I think the clip almost filled the space between the jaws, to within a few thou.  The clip eliminates the need for the spring to act as a spring, once the clip is in place the spring keep the clip from falling out.  

This is a test reply

22 hours ago, Ed-H said:

 I’m sure you have handled a cane or crutches, maybe a garden canopy, where you depress a button in the leg and the leg can be extended or shortened.  Same concept here.  

 

Thanks Ed.  That is what I had thought it was from Dave's earlier posts.  My confusion came from your work where no amount of anything would get the "button" to depress the spring.  I do appreciate all your work and picture posts you are putting up for us here.

7 hours ago, a2host said:

This is a test reply

Test successful.  

Hello: I  have a Buck Rogers, fair condition, also several Yankee 41Y.  I am interested in joining this group, although not just at this moment.  Info on what to do to join will be appreciated.  Thanks much!

Well, we expect the new folks to bring lots of donuts to a party....but beyond that all you have to do is register. I was going to link the registration page but it's hiding somewhere. Someone else will be along to show you where it is.

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by Fred W. Hargis Jr

I like a good cake donut @45dodger.  Welcome aboard, hope to see some pics

and then you end up with things like this....yes, that's a 3/8" square tip on that and the whole thing appears to have been made like that.  can't say i've ever seen one like it before. 

Edited June 11, 20232 yr by p_toad

On 6/7/2023 at 4:17 PM, 45dodger said:

Hello: I  have a Buck Rogers, fair condition, also several Yankee 41Y.  I am interested in joining this group, although not just at this moment.  Info on what to do to join will be appreciated.  Thanks much!

Looks like you already joined!

20 hours ago, p_toad said:

and then you end up with things like this....yes, that's a 3/8" square tip on that and the whole thing appears to have been made like that.  can't say i've ever seen one like it before. 

Now that's a strange one Peter, not sure how that would work? What fits on the end of it?

On 6/11/2023 at 7:14 PM, John Morris said:

What fits on the end of it?

any normal 3/8" drive socket.  the little button pushes right in.

Good evening!  From reading the above posts, it appears that my 100's ring with the engraved sizes, etc. will be left loose and sort of floating.  I did not find any comments where anyone secured the ring to the red handle.  As with many other hobby items, some things just need to be left alone if they are "good enough", the fix may be worse!

Thanks for the descriptions.  I haven't yet taken any of mine apart and its good to know how.

 

I've been pretty good at not buying more than one of a tool, but I've failed with the push drills.  It started w/ a #30 screw driver.  Then followed with 130, 131, 135 and a 233 clone by Kunz and it had drill bits and a countersink with the screwdriver bits.

 

I got a #45 with a crack in the handle.  Then the cheap blue plastic junk one Stanley made until they stopped.  I found a #41 and a #41Y (that I use all the time).  A Sears Craftsman version of the #45 that I couldn't pass up. 

 

Finally,I just got what I hope is the last, a Millers Falls #185A to replace the 41Y as my user.  The MF has holes of each size bit with a label in the handle.  You can put the the screw/nail you're drilling for into the hole, move the cap to the hole and drop that bit into your hand.  Its easier to take bits out than the #41.  Plus, it uses the dimpled bits I already have.

 

I just hope I don't find some other model with more features I'd like....

 

Also, the countersink bit isn't great on the short stroke of the 233.  Its better on the 135.