"Back From The Archives"

 

This is the restoration of the machine that Shane introduced us to in his post here.

 

I'll document the restoration of this tenoner here in this post but first I need your guy's opinion on the color of this machine.

I have looked all over the internet trying to find another machine like this one or any J.A. Fay & Co. machine from the same time period so I could figure out the colors, but there's just nothing out there.

 

So I have been slowly picking away at the caked on sawdust and soot trying to find colors and I now think I have it figured out.

 

The whole machine was painted this rusty orangish/red color.

With bright red and black pinstripes all over the place.

I have found the pinstriping just about everywhere I have found good paint.

The rope detail was a bright green.

And so were the flowers (I guess that's what they are). The flowers also have some red highlights in them.

I tell you this was one colorful machine and I wasn't 100% sure on the colors, until last night when I came across this machine and it pretty much confirmed what I have found.

It's a beautiful 1860s scroll saw in all original condition.

More pics of the saw can be seen here ... J.A. Fay & Co. Scroll Saw

 

In the pics you can see the same rusty orangish/red color, and the bright reds and greens, and all the pinstriping so I feel pretty confident my tenoner had the same paint scheme. The saw was sold but I have contacted the current owner asking for more detailed pics.

 

So, here's where I need your opinion. Usually when someone asks about what color a machine should be I always tell them it's your machine, paint it how you want. I have never been a purist when it comes to the machines I restore. I paint them what color I want and make modifications to them as I see fit, but seeing how old and rare this machine is I feel like I should be 100% accurate, or as close to that as I can be.

 

Now my delima ... To be totally honest with you, I am not real fond of the original colors. My wife loves them but me .. nah. I think it would look great all black, with the center scroll work a dark maroon color, gold leaves, ropes, letters, and gold pinstriping, I already have the paint mixed up for it.

 

But, maybe it wont look that bad original when I am all done with it. But it's such a big machine and that sure is an awful lot of red, which I have never been real fond of. But, like I said above, I feel I should try to be as accurate as I can. Maybe I can learn to live with the red, that scroll saw above sure is pretty.

 

 

So what do you think? Do you like the original colors or should I paint it how I want? I really would like to hear your opinions.

 

Thanks for looking,

Shane

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

I'd go with black, then use the original colors for the other stuff.  

 

 

Eric

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Well I like the pieces I've seen you do in black. I think if the original colors had some gloss to them it might look better, but the dull look and the orange/red with the faded green doesn't do anything for me. I for one though would never second guess your opinion as you have some beautiful machines.

Did I really suggest anything?

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane, I hate to side with your wife but I agree with her that it sould go back original. If you would make the orange a deep orange and the green a deep gren I think it would look OK.

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

I agree with Ron. But I would use more of a gloss.

 

Phil

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane...To be honest the first thing that came to mind was Eric LaVelles' Rowley and Hermance Sweepstakes planer. Gloss black with orange and yellow highlights and pinstriping.

 

 

 

Ken

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane,

 

Tough call on this one. Both would look good.

 

I saw an 1860's 4-4-0 locomotive that was restored a few years ago, and was surprised at the colors used back then. The description plaque stated that they matched the original colors.  From photos taken back then one wouldn't think that machines were made that colorfull. It's to bad they didn't have color film back then.

 

I guess I was born 100 years to late.

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Thanks for your opinions guys. I am still struggling with this. One day I think I'll go original and the next I change my mind. I'll probably go original and if I don't like it it will be easy enough to repaint it.

 

I haven't made a whole lot of progress on the machine yet. I got it all tore apart and began stripping paint.  To strip the paint I will usually use a wire wheel, which does a great job on the flat surfaces but not so good in the tight corners and detailed areas. So to strip the paint I bought a cheap gravity feed sand blaster and 300 lbs of Green Diamond blasting media. It works great but is a little slower than a wire wheel.

 

 

Here's a couple before / after shots. You can see how well the sand blaster works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This weekend I didn't do a lot of work on the tenoner, instead I focused my efforts on a small factory cart I got out of the mill. It was pretty rickety when I brought it home so I tightened up all the nuts and bolts which made it nice and solid. I also lightly sanded the wood which revealed some beautiful wood which has been colored with 100+ years of paint and stain spilling on it.

 

 

Hopefully the weather is good and I can get more blasting done next weekend.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Shane

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

The blasting looks great. I kind of wish I had a sand blaster.

I love the cart. The patina is awesome!

 

Ken

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

I salute you Sir for having so much respect with the old times! You do excellent work!!

 

Claude

WWW.SAWBLADE.COM

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane,

 

I really do like the old colors, and I like the idea that the 1800s were more colorful than we once thought.

 

And of course if Kirk Poore was here, he'd vote for the red....

 

I've got to say though that no one is better qualified to determine the fate of this beauty than you.

 

I can't wait to see it when you are done!

 

 

Bob

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane,

 

I'm also trying to imagine just how many man hours went into carving those patterns.

 

And then to think they hand pinstriped the whole thing. It's almost like they thought it would last more than a century.

 

 

Bob

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Have you picked the colors? I'm shocked at how well that blasting is working.

 

I was thinking about a kind of combo color scheme, in which you still go with colors instead of black, but you kind of pick more modern versions of the colors and maybe pick darker tones instead of bright cartoony ones. That way it would still seem colorful, but it wouldn't look garish or clash, it would just look good.

 

 

Andy

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Man that is looking good all cleaned up. They built them old machines to last. Love that old cart.

I have to think how many of them I have used. Seems like every where I worked they had at lest one old cart from the past that was still in use.

 

Phil

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Shane that is one beautiful machine. Cant wait until it's done and painted. Nice work so far!

 

Mike

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Thanks for your input guys!

 

I've decided on the colors, I'm sticking real close to the originals with one exception ... I really don't like the color of the pinstripe, which I originally thought was red but after further study I can see it was a bright orange. It's going to be a maroon color instead.

 

I got a little more work done last weekend. The machine is 90 percent disassembled but I've still got to pull the pulleys off of the shafts. They are stuck on there pretty good, so I'm soaking them with some penetrating oil.

 

One leg was cracked in two places so I v'ed out the crack and nickel welded it back together.

I also got the legs and main frame sandblasted.

 

The little sandblaster I bought is working great. I bought 300 lbs of Green Diamond blasting media which seems to do a nice job of stripping away the old paint and rust. I laid out a large tarp on the ground to catch most of the media and run it through a screen to reuse it. I have most of the sand blasting done and still have 200 lbs of media left.

 

The sandblaster cost around 75 bucks and another 25 bucks for the blasting media. 100 bucks well spent.

 

One thing that I find very cool on this machine, and also very frustrating, is all the bolts and nuts are all different. They are all hand cut, one at a time, and no two of them are the same. They are close to a 3/4 inch head with some slightly bigger and some slightly smaller. The threads are 13 tpi and close to a 1/2" diameter but the diameter is slightly smaller than a 1/2" and a little larger than a 7/16. If I put a regular 1/2" x 13 tpi nut on the bolts it fits very loose and a 7/16 nut is definitely to small.

 

When I restore a machine I like to clean up the threads with a tap and die. I have an adjustable 13 tpi die that I can use on the bolts but I may have to make a tap for the nuts and tapped holes.

 

Here's a shot of a couple of the bolts. You can see the differences ... the thread lengths are different and the thickness and width of the heads are also different. Some of the bolts almost look like they are cast iron, you can see casting imperfections in them, but I wouldn't think cast iron would make a very good bolt, wouldn't they be too brittle?

 

I didn't even know they were using hex bolts back in the 1860s. I have restored machines from the 1910's-20's that had nothing but square headed bolts on them.

 

Okay enough about the bolts, here's a shot of some more cool detailed work ... I love the cast iron thumb screw ... looks like a viking helmet ... lol. With details like that I am betting the square head thumb screw is a replacement.

Painting is next,

 

Shane

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

That thing looks prettier every time you show it. I was wondering if the bolts where all hand made.

I remember a show Roy Underhill had done with a blacksmith and they showed how it was done.

 

Phil

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

I got a little painting done the last two weekends.

I love the way the legs turned out.

 

 

(click on the pics for a larger image)

 

 

And the main frame.

 

 

Until I added the blue/green color. This pic shows the colors and paint scheme as close to original as I can figure but I really don't like it.

 

I am either going to leave the acanthus leaves and rope detail black, or paint them gold unless you guys can suggest another color that would look good. Maybe if I darkened up the color some it would look better.

 

 

I still need to do all the pinstriping after I get the other details worked out.

The restoration is progressing slowly but, all in all I am happy with the results.

 

Shane

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

I have hex head bolts on a wood framed blind stile borer from the 1850's. They are hand forged and the heads are tapered. Nice work on your machine.

 

 

Eric

 

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk

Thanks Eric. I did some reading up on the bolts. Looks like hex heads were being made in the early 1800s but didn't really start catching on until the 1840s when cold-heading machines started becoming available.

 

I did a little playing around with the pic above using photoshop to changed the bluegreen color to see what it would look like replaced with other colors. I think I might just go with the sandstone color, maybe darken it up a shade. The pinstriping will add a little more color contrast.

 

Here's a quick photoshopped pic. I dont like the rope color but the acanthus leaves I like, maybe just a little darker.

 

Shane

 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Larry Buskirk