Restoring an old fiddle

[Woodman]

As promised within the Use of an Angle & Taper Calculator in everyday woodworking thread, here's the amateur hobbyist play-by-play of restoring an old violin. This old fiddle came to me in its original or so coffin case and promptly fell apart as soon as I removed the chin rest. The first 20-some images chronicle its condition with attention to tool marks.

 

August 14-15, 2018

 

Gut strings!

 

 

Keystone-shaped dovetail-cut pegbox repair, likely c.1880s.

 

 

Wow, lookie that patina!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This violin is not a Kloz, not remotely built as a Kloz, certainly sounded nothing like a Kloz, I've reliably been told.

 

 

 

 

Likely an authentic repair marking, this work failed, maybe around 1920; the glue I removed was oddly sticky with a sharp astringent odor.

 

 

All of these images are used to date and identify the fiddle. It is thought to be mid-1800s, a build of the French Mirecourt region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cannot fake this crackled spirit varnish with embedded dirt / rosin.

 

 

August 23, 2018

 

 

Spent some time cleaning up the top, meaning glue edges and whatnot. Then reassembled the ribs to the back.

 

 

 

Cleats ("jacks" to the Brits) being glued. I shave them flat and scribble a few notes on them which get sanded off.

 

 

September 11, 2018

 

 

 

By mid-September 2018, a new end block is successfully crafted after eleven tries. Working backward, I glue the block to the heel neck. Most or all violin neck heels are cut squarely, a big tenon, the end block is a big mortise. This joint is dovetailed, so I keep it as-is - cleaned it up and sharpened the edges.  Officially my first "neck reset".

 

 

 

 

 

Wowwie, look at that neck angle! What about the projected height of the strings !?!?!

 

 

 

The violin is back together about five weeks after I received it, strung up with used $80 strings. The old end block on display.

 

 

 

A new bridge is on the violin. It is 40mm high, a good centimeter higher than specification. Way too high for a practiced violinist, but bringing the fiddle to a bluegrass circle, I note the higher string angle does produce a great tone. Even, dare I say, a fantastic tone. Mo' downward pressure.

 

 

But it is not sellable at 40mm. 29.5mm - 31.0mm is the range.  My projected height is all off. Image sequence was thrown off, but the top is removed, the end block pried off, and the neck reset. My second official neck reset. Thank the saints I am using my own hide glue through all of this.

 

In this image, which I *think* is in correct sequence, one may see a slight difference in neck angle. Hard to tell, but I was off by a little under 2˚

 

 

And she's back together a second time. New pegs in newly-contoured peg holes of the modern** 1:30 taper. New fingerboard and nut all pictured here.  ** modern since the early 1900s, replacing 1:20 taper or whatever was traditionally used in the shop.

 

 

New strings this time. $40 D'Addario Helicores.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The pegbox repair was undone, cleaned up, and reglued using the same piece of wood. I *may* have used Titebond on this one joint, as it represented something I never ever wanted to come undone again. All the other joints are hide glue; in theory, a violin may be taken apart and repaired indefinitely. 

 

 

 

Hope you enjoyed the tour.  -  jim

[lew]

WoW! Thanks for the journey!

 

Reminds me of my grandfather's old violin- before you started.

[Grandpadave52]

Amazing work, artistry, patience and remaining true to the original. Thanks for sharing the journey and the education.

 

@John Morris...please move this thread to the Woodworking General Forum. A great story and learning opportunity to be lost in Free for All. Thanks in advance.

[Woodman]

45 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

artistry, patience

Thanks, Doc!  Believe me, I did not have that patience until just a few years ago. It's also called, "Slowing down both physically and mentally".

 

Here's a composite. Nothing but naphtha used for cleaning, I believe. Practically no spirit varnish touchup to the top, but I would have done the edges of the lip where they meet the ribs. Once the dirt is removed, or most of it at least, the top would have been polished with a buffers polish which smells like bowling alleys. 

 

Behlen Buffer's Polish is an extremely fine buffing agent. Buffer's Polish buffs out minor imperfections in a cured finish.

 

[Grandpadave52]

1 minute ago, Dovetail said:

Nothing but naphtha used for cleaning,

Not sure how safe it might be for thin wood/veneered instruments but I've had great success using Hydrogen Peroxide to clean old furniture, wood planes, wood handles on tools and the like. No chance of affecting the finish or usually old glue joints. I'll look into the Behlens Buffer Polish though.

[Woodman]

18 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Hydrogen Peroxide

On spirit varnish, lighter fluid / naphtha is good. Removes the grime, inert to the finish. You can puddle it on a suspected top fracture and it'll weep through the tightest crack, let you view the crack w/ light and mirror. Then evaps, no harm, no foul. Does not affect the tone.

 

Restorers would only use a mildly-soapy solution on Q-Tips to restore the top of a $200,000 violin - when the customer is watching. Then give it a quick wipe with naphtha after closing.

 

Many "normal" cleaning agents flow over rosin-embedded dirt without effect. The rosin is tree resin. Rosin becomes dust, sticks, gets dirty, hardens harder than a clam shell.

 

Acetone will melt plastics, and like xylene, is too strong for spirit varnishes. Denatured alcohol and drinking booze will melt and remove spirit varnish, a no-no.  Isopropyl alcohol does nothing; just wipes off like water.

 

As far as buffing agents, there is the Behlen's, and I've also used rottenstone in a rubbing oil. Then hand buffed with a soft cloth. For hours, while watching a movie.

[Grandpadave52]

Thanks Jim. Great information. Finish/ refinish is not a strong suit for me.

[Woodman]

29 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Finish/ refinish is not a strong suit for me.

Me neither! And what makes it worse, you CANNOT sand an old fiddle top to wood and refinish it. Changes the tone, you lose provenance, value plummets. 

 

Here's a 1914 'mystery fiddle'. I've got multiple progress images but the short of it is that there was so much damage, my options were limited. That is some type of contact cement speared across a gapping top crack. This fiddle was played hard, put away wet!

 

 

 

[Gerald]

That is an amazing PIP. Thanks for taking the time to lead us on a journey we would never have taken by ourselves.

[Woodman]

You’re welcome! A buyer is often very particular; the instrument is quite personal. Even cleaning and restringing a violin gives me a magnified  look at the owner and their habits. Buyers see value in meticulous detail and hide glue. I “sell the sizzle” with pictures. It also helps me remember what I did, in case it worked out. 
 

This buyer was a young tenor, the true broke musician. Beater car with jumper cables in the back seat. Saw the provenance and had to have it. The coolness factor. After playing several latest projects, he was divided between this and another rebuild, each distinct in tone. I made him an offer on both, and had a sale. 

[Cal]

[kmealy]

amazing work!

 

[Woodman]

6 hours ago, kmealy said:

amazing work!

 

Thanks, Keith! I'm a total amateur but here's what I've learned so far:  Have a dedicated work area which will remain undisturbed for weeks on end. Five-ten minutes at a time, with hours / days in between. Study the pieces, and after a while you see why one part wracked this way or how that glue joint failing led to A B C D. All the clues are there. It is a puzzle. You put it together the opposite way fell apart.

 

One thing I'm not shy about doing is removing material from the underside lip of the top. The top is tone-tapped to a specific pitch, like F, so removing wood will change the pitch, change the tone of the assembled instrument. BUT if no one is alive to know how it sounded whole, does a bear go to church on Sundays? In reality, we're talking sawdust, mass is added in the gluing, at completion the Pope is happy.

 

Rather than obsess on saving every splinter, gluing them all back wherst they came from, I take a 12" sanding block and get the mating surfaces good and flat. The ebony nut and saddle especially want perfect 100% contact with the neck, fingerboard, top, end block, and rib respectively. Leave nothing to chance, as the great Wayne Henderson will say about guitar building. There is about 80 pounds of tension on the strings, the instrument weighs a pound or maybe more - the 1914 fiddle ended up 454 grams. All held together by hide glue.

 

         

 

This one is really old, a home-built by an unknown luthier who maybe made 25 violins in his life. Rescued from a church closet in New England. 

 

    

[Cal]

[John Morris]

Beautiful topic and work! Moved to "General Woodworking Forum" from Free for All.

[aaronc]

Fantastic project !  

[wotmug]

I have an old violin my great grandfather made ( that was his profession, Luthier ) I began restoring the finish which became very tacky over time.

I want to remove that finish ( whatever it is? ) but I'm afraid of using wrong remover, for fear of damaging it. 

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

Thank you

[Grandpadave52]

5 minutes ago, wotmug said:

I have an old violin my great grandfather made ( that was his profession, Luthier ) I began restoring the finish which became very tacky over time.

I want to remove that finish ( whatever it is? ) but I'm afraid of using wrong remover, for fear of damaging it. 

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

Thank you

Welcome to TPW and your first post Robert. Great to have you on the team. Looking forward to your participation and following your restoration project as well.

@Dovetail aka Jim is our new found expert here so hopefully he'll be along soon to provide his expertise to your question. In the meantime, join in the fun along with information, tips, tricks and projects. Glad you found us!

[Woodman]

1 hour ago, wotmug said:

I began restoring the finish which became very tacky over time.

Hi Robert.  The finish became tacky on its own, through oxidation? Sounds like an oil-based shellac. I'm definitely not a finishes expert, learning what I know through trial and error. But do recall sometimes a shellac can have additives which go wonky over time ...

 

If it is not very tacky, you could buff it with a soft cloth for about six hours. Two good war movies. You remove the strings, bridge, tailpiece. Perhaps first a good wipe-down buffing with soft cloth dampened with warm mildly-soapy water - wring the bejesus out of the cloth, rinse often. Then the dry buff for a few hours. The finish should begin to meld and spread from friction, the shine return. This should work for both spirit and oil finishes.

 

As always, the best thing to do is as little as possible. If the violin finish remains gummy, then I'd be scratching my head. Worse case scenario, you'll get a sanding kit from internationalviolin, 400 to 12,000 grit, remove everything down to the sealer, reseal the violin, then refinish it. There are many sealing options; I've even used tea as a sealer-stain.

 

You lose provenance when refinishing an instrument; the tone will change. Some people want a nice-looking wall hanger which plays easily. If you are going to try to remove the top layer of finish, you definitely want to proceed lightly; do not sand to white wood.

[Gerald]

I think this is right on for shellac it does over time if not cleaned (as any finish ) collect dirt and other patina. I am wondering is something like Murphy's Oil Soap would work. Not sure on instruments but shellac can be refreshed with a light wipe of alcohol. Alcohol is the solvent for shellac and if not done carefully will remove the shellac so soap and water first.