Repairing Tear out

[Danl]

How should I go about repairing the tear out to this hard maple top?  The board has not been sanded yet.  All measurements are approximates.  Danl

 

[lew]

If it hasn't been sanded, I think I'd sand it down to the depth of the tearout but feather out the "divot" several inches, in all directions, to make it less noticable.

[Larry Buskirk]

You could also try swelling the area a bit by using a damp towel and clothes iron and then sanding.

[Smallpatch]

The only thing a hot iron and a damp cloth will do is raise up crushed wood fibers. It won't do anything to wood that is missing.

 Danl, if your planer blades did that maybe a new set of blades might help.  If the blades are new and sharp then only take a much smaller amount of wood off with each pass. Like a tenth of a turn and see what happens….and if the tear out was only in that one area then only go the other direction in to the planer. But if you can't remember what direction you were feeding the wood then you still got a problem.,

 

 

[John Morris]

DanL, dittos on what Lew said, I have done that many times and I just sand down to it and feather it out, if you set up a straight edge on the area you sand, sure you'll see a depression, but I guarantee ya, you are the only one that will know, and after a few days, the whole thing will just disappear from memory.

And we must, we must remember one wonderful thing about those mishaps, lessons, dabnabits, it's hand made! A small depression in the area only guarantees to the folks in the future who may notice, that it was indeed made by hand, with a soul and with a mind.

Cheers

[hatuffej]

I have had good results by filling the depressions with a wood putty close in color to the base wood. Follow up with the sanding sequence and apply finish. I can't see the spots unless I look closely, and if there is a slight discoloration, it always looks natural. 

[Danl]

Will CA glue work to fill the larger areas?  This is one board to a 36" wide table top.  I do have enough meat to put it across a drum sander.  I do do not own one and I'm concerned if I put it across a drum sander I might get snipe.  Your thoughts?    Danl

[Gerald]

Ca can work but epoxy would be better and if you plan to stain the area will not take a stain. For reference CA is for small cracks and very small dimples (not my preference for this) .

      Yes drum sanders can cause snipe so if you go that route follow the board with another sacrificial board behind it, or two pieces longer than the original placed on each side. What Lew and John referenced is hand sanding or small pads in drill.

[John Morris]

Hey Dan, unrelated to the repair but more of a process question. When you feed your boards through the planer are you consciously looking at grain direction as you feed the board in? 

[John Moody]

28 minutes ago, John Morris said:

Hey Dan, unrelated to the repair but more of a process question. When you feed your boards through the planer are you consciously looking at grain direction as you feed the board in? 

Feed direction can make a difference.  I get mine close with the planer and run them through a dual drum sander and don’t have any snipe.

 

[Ron Dudelston]

I’m with Gerald on this one. If you aren’t going to stain or dye the piece, I would fill it with epoxy and sand it back.

[Danl]

Thanks everyone for for your advice, I appreciate it.   I cannot remember if my planer did the tear out or if I purchased the boards with the tear out.  I am conscience of grain direction when I plane but this board was flat sawed and has grain going both directions.  My original plan was to run the glue-up top across a drum sander but the glue-up is coming our very good ( for my skill level) and a drum sander is not necessary except for this one bad area.  I've now had to set this project aside, so it will be awhile before i get back to repairing, planing, or sanding.  Thanks again.  Danl

[John Morris]

We'd love a follow up Dan when you get back around to it, do you have any preconceived ideas how you are going to deal with the troubled area?

[John Morris]

@Ron Dudelston and @Gerald, I have never worked this scenario with epoxy and sanding it back, I have a couple questions.

1. Do you still see the tearout under the epoxy?
2. What type of epoxy would be used as some epoxy darkens during hardening.
3. Does the epoxy create a shiner on the surface after finishing? For example, if finished with satin, will the epoxy shine through gloss?

Rookie questions. I've only used epoxy for knot holes, and small ones at that, sometimes after finishing I would notice the epoxy shined up more than the finished surface, not enough to bother me, but I noticed it.

[Gene Howe]

#1 yes...unless you color it.

#2 most cheap epoxies will turn amber if poured clear.

#3 yes

With epoxy, like most tools, going cheap is false economy. BTDT. Don't get me wrong. There's a place for cheap epoxies. If it's mixed with a coloring agent or, used as a fixitive. But it's simpler to just stock the better stuff to begin with.

[Gerald]

John  , 1.I would emphasize rather than hide if filling. Use a contrasting but complimenting color. Black or dark brown works well on most woods . If you use a colorless the tearout may, note may, still be visible.

           2. Any epoxy will work for a small spot as long as the wood has reaches a stable point. However with all the talk of wood movement I will now consider a flexible epoxy such as T-88 or G/Flex.

           3. shiny may be relative to what finish you use and how large or irregular the spot is. Sone disguise may help such as burn the area with pyrography and then fill and will look like a knot or inclusion. If you use gloss finish no problem. Satin may be a problem so you could rough the epoxy surface with steel wool.

[Ron Dudelston]

I agree with The two Gs above.  Certainly, use a higher grade epoxy and if the tear out is deep I’d tint it.  If the tear out is only .020 or so the spots should be relatively small and a tint may not be necessary.  I’ve only had one issue finishing epoxy.  The ranch table I built had a pretty substantial knot hole in it and I had to use a little Zinnser shellac based primer to created a bonding surface.

[Danl]

11 hours ago, John Morris said:

We'd love a follow up Dan when you get back around to it, do you have any preconceived ideas how you are going to deal with the troubled area?

The rest of the story……

 

I wanted to build a 1 1/4” x 36 x 54 hard maple table top.  I went to my hardwood distributer and purchased qty (3) 6/4 boards.  Two boards were ~ 10’ long and one was 9”-1” long.  Each were skipped planed.  I knew that it would be close finishing the boards to 1 ¼” thickness.  This distributer usually sells nice lumber, but he was looking to unload his 6/4 hard maple and I did not want to purchase 8/4 lumber.

 

I do not have a jointer but I have been successful using a sled and a planner in the past.  I have a friend who has an 8” jointer with a helical head and a 15” planer with a helical head and he invited me to his shop. 

 

Each board was approximately 9 ¼” wide.  I sawed each board in half, hot glued a straight edge to one side and ripped each board to 7 15/16” wide and headed over to my friends shop.

 

While in his shop it was obvious that it would be difficult to plane to 1 ¼ thicknesses and I did not want the snip I was receiving from his jointed.  So, after I flattened one side on each board with his jointer, I took my lumber home.  The original plan was to use qty (6) boards approx. 6” wide each.  One of the boards cleaned up less than 1 1/8” thick, so I changed the plan to use qty (5) boards.  Using five boards dictated that I had to plane each board more to allow for a wider finished board.

 

While at home, my wife asked to have two ¾” cherry strips inserted each side of the middle board, long grain exposed.  I was able to remove all of the snipe and cleaned-up all of the boards to 1 3/16” thickness.  Close enough to 1 ¼” thickness.  The original plan was to also drum sand the 36” wide table top after glue-up to remove any mismatch and any original tear-up.

 

I have another friend who has an oscillating 22-44 drum sander.  He has informed me that his drum sander works very well.  I have another friend who has a friend who has a 37x2 double roll drum sander.  Neither of us have used or seen it.

 

I laid out the boards prior to glue up to confirm that I could get 54 inches (one of the boards is only 55” long but the other four are 60 inches long so I have enough length to allow for any snipe but they have some end checks).  I glued bd #1 to bd #2 while also having bd #3 in the clamps.  I glued bd #5 to bd #4 while having bd #3 in the clamps.  I was very surprised of the results.  The final mismatches can be removed with a card scrapper.  I am hoping/expecting the same results when I glue bd #2 to bd #3 and glue bd #4 to bd #3.  If this is the case, then I do not need to drum sand the mismatches.  But, I have to address the initial tear out issue.

 

Opt#1 – make the final glue-ups and sand with the 37x2 double roll sander.  Final thickness 1 1/8”.   Risk:  I do not know the owner, I do not know if the sander is operational or how it may perform.

 

Opt#2 – make the final glue-ups and sand with the oscillating 22-44 drum sander. Final thickness 1 1/8”. Risk:  The table top is heavy and only ~60% of the weight will be supported by the sander.  I’m concerned about the unsupported weight and if I will be left with a beveled surface.

 

Opt#3 – make the final glue-ups and use a card scrapper across the glue lines.  And then address the tear-out issue.  Either fill with epoxy or locally sand and fair out the low spot. Final thickness 1 3/16”.

 

Opt#4 – run the boards across a planner before final glue-up.  Risk.  Two of the boards are now wider than what my planer will accept so I will have to find someone who can plan the boards for me.  I want NO SNIPE.   Final thickness 1 1/8”.

 

My head hurts doing all of this thinking.  I have not made the final decision for the edge profile, but I believe any final thickness will be Ok.  I’m leaning towards Opt#2.  This option will clean-up all glue lines.   I can use additional boards along the sides or trailing while sanding to help eliminate any beginning/ending snipe, and reduces the weight of the table top.  I will have to address my concern about the possibility of getting a sanded bevel edge due to having ~40% of the weight not support (looking for TPW input).  Your comments are very much appreciated.  Thanks you for all of the epoxy information.  Danl

[Larry Buskirk]

Man,

My cheap fix must be totally out of line here? 

A little sanding, mix the dust with Titebond II and hope for the best! 

Those colored markers for furniture repair work wonders for coloring what won't take stain. 

[Ron Altier]

 Thanks Danl 

That was a good question and good answers. I've ran into that a few times and was able to plane it down in VERY small adjustments. However I've wondered if "there is a better way" I would not try epoxy, unless I had a replacement piece. My luck with epoxy hasn't been the best because a small amount of heat from sanding will distort the epoxy.