would be curious to hear what is your favorite finish, and application methods, meaning do you prefer oil finishes, water bourne, lacquer , shellacs , and do you brush, wipe, or spray,

   I peronally have become quite fond of water bourne, and spraying, for numerous reasons, mostly durability, and speed, but I know many, dont have spray capability, and many dont have enviorments to spray in, .

    What im looking for is to start a good discussion on the various finishes and application methods, as well as applying stains and dyes, and the issues you encounter,,, so lets get some discussions going, and perhaps we can sort some of the dreded finishing issues out

Read my Poly Blog.   I don't "dread" finishing."  I think it's the fun part..

Larry

It is so hard on my ego to agree with Larry but he's right.  I tried his method and it really does work.

Thanks, Ron..You got an ego?  Geez..

Larry

Hard to believe, eh?

 

The size of your ego is proportionate to the length of your life.

Larry

These are some tops I am doing in water base dye, General finishes clear seal a cell and then general finishes flat enduro var. Sprayed with a 35$ woodcraft sprayer. There are more finishes then just poly guys. Water base is what we will all be using soon. These tops have just 1 coat of finish on. They will be sanded wiped and resprayed 1 more time. The depth and clarity of dyes and finishes do a lot for your project. They dry fast and the smell is nice, not solvent.

Charles does know his finishing better then anyone I know, except me darn ego....

 

This is a good opportunity to ask questions and learn new things. Ace had a great post about spray finishing on the lathe with water base stuff. His blog about his lowboy also has some good stuff. bob

 

 

Of course there's finishes beside poly.  What ever works for you.  It seems your methods are pretty labor intensive.

I just have great luck with poly.  Are there nore than one of us who are "experts?" 

Bet Steve and Am60 (The WOOD poly Cops) would disagree..

Larry

I have fallen in love with hand-rubbed shellac.  Dries in a flash and looks great.

My favorite finish is water-based. However it gets applied to the wood, in my book doesn't matter, just follow the finish manufactures recommendations, for any finish.

 

I have used gallons of oil-based.  I have used old tee shirts, paint brushes, socks (Larry I must admit I have never dreamed of pantyhose     to apply a finish, but hey whateva works    )  

 

But I pick-up what Bob is laying down about the water-based being the future and I like water-based.   I still like oil and still gonna use it. Like Larry, I don't dread finishing. I find finishing interesting....and heck, I'm better than all of you put together....hehehehe NO EGO here....   

 

-Ace-

Charles, I have turned into an oil man! Since I built my first rocker, I have fallen in love with the richness and feel of an "in the grain" look of oil. And, the simplicity of its application is a big favorite of mine. No spraying, no mess, just rub it on, and watch the color pop.

I don't like a smooth plastic look to my wood surface. I love seeing grain, I am not talking about seeing grain color, I love seeing grain texture, and being able to feel the grain. I like the "in the wood" feel of rubbed oil finishes.

The sanding process is the biggest compliment to oil finishes, I take my sanding from 80 to 1600. Then all that is left to do, is apply that lovely oil. When sanding to 1600, the wood fibers burnish, and achieve a semi gloss before the first application of oil is even applied.

Now, I would be all ears if you could suggest something that would give me that "in the wood" finish and have some protective qualities as well. Maybe add something hard to the oil? I don't want to smooth over the grains, I want them to show and be natural, yet have some surface protection from moisture. Am I making sense.

Thanks Charles, great discussion, and thanks for kicking this off.

 

My finish all depends on what I am working on. But I really like the look of hand rubbed and polished poly. Easy to clean and care for when done, resists most of the enviroment and lasts a long time. Not to mention not bad to repair if some minor damage occurs. Not too keen on brushing on a finish, feel like you are painting it. Rubbing things out is the same as applying oil but if feels more personal. Boy I hope that makes sense. I have done pieces with just oil, but it seems to require more maintanence to me. Haven't tried spraying yet. ( other then laquer ).

Wayne

 

I don't hate the finishing, but I am eager to learn so much more about  it. I love to spray finish but don't mind rubbing a finish in. I like shellac and varnish. I am fond of several of the oil finishes as John stated. I even like to put on poly when it fits the project. I hope I  don't get too one dimensional and can learn to do all of the finishes.

 

I am open ears to what you have to share with us.

 

Lead on Master Yoda.

Your right Larry, a little more labor intensive, like hand cut dovetails vs. machine cut. After a while, it becomes second nature, and do it in your sleep......labor of loooooove.... 

-Ace-


Larry Jenkins said:

Of course there's finishes beside poly.  What ever works for you.  It seems your methods are pretty labor intensive.

I just have great luck with poly.  Are there nore than one of us who are "experts?" 

Bet Steve and Am60 (The WOOD poly Cops) would disagree..

Larry

 I like oil finishes, but not weak ones, like danish oil, BLO, (  Yuck), we have progressed too far in the finishing industry to bother with inferior oils, my biggest issue is their true protective ability, and their super slow dry times, I see alot of pieces done in concoctions of various oils and all sorts of thinners and so forth, including kerosesne, the difference for me is what it looks like a year or 10 down the road, when you do this for a living, if it fails you get to do it again, not a good thing, so in my world it has to work, my choice in oils are Arm r Seal, by General Finishes, Waterlox , minwax's poly oil does pretty well , and they pop the grain, as well as any thingout out there, Like Bob, I like a first coat of Seal A Cell, it has the nice amber , as well is thin enough to penetrate and seal the wood internally, and its grain enhancement is excellent,  Waterlox also has a amber hue, and can be thinned with mineral spirits, ( slower dry) or naphtha ( faster dry ) , for more penetration, Arm r Seal is a urethane base, and is the clearest of the ones listed, but it is also about as tough as it gets, I have it on floors and know of several sets of high end steps done it in, and it wears like iron, both of these oils can be applied in any of the afore mentioned ways, as stated you can thin it and use multiple coats wiped back, or what we usually do is apply it with a foam brush, and lay on a full wet coat like packaged, and sanding between  coats with some 400 to 600, apply 3 to 4 coats and its done, average dry time between coats is about 8 to 12 hours, if needed it can be rubbed, my preference for rubbing is either micro mesh or abralon pads, I much prefer a "sanded" rub, instead of a loose abrasive one, I find consistent and even sheens are much better afforded.

 On the topic of water bourne finishes,  here is an article I wrote for Apollos newsletter http://www.thefinishingstore.com/pages/Newsletter-%23112.html      so forgive the gun reference, it sort of outlines the pros and cons of Water bourne, while many here like the oil based polys, and shellacs, hopefully you will still be able to get them but it is changing fast, like Bob mentioned, California, for example has done away with solvent in many areas, so manufactures  and retailers, simply wil not ship anything solvent based into the state, they dont bother to see if the particular area, is legal or not, Canada, they cant even get denatured alcohol for shellac, and many other staes are following suit,  so it is coming, like it or not, and with rising solvent prices, its becoming more competive price wise, but by experience has shown, its a superior finish in about every respect, and while we have all heard about solvent going the way of the 8 track tapes and cassettes, but yet it remains, times have changed , Water bourne has matured and technology have progressed until its now a viable and effective product, all of europe is water base, most all of your automotive finishes are water bourne, so for the first time, there is a good alternative to our beloved solvent based products,

   many complain of the plastic look, I find this is more a case of film thickness and sheen, I can apply and/or rub a water bourne finish to look like about any thing I want , it is more chemical ressitent, and totally water proof,  for me its my go to finish

At this point I'm pretty much addicted to Land Ark's natural oil (and wax) based finishes, they were originally designed for special requirements of large 'green' timbers but they're great for anything and I've been using them all over the house.  They're completely non-toxic which is perfect for me since I'm living inside my current wood working project and utilize a citrus solvent so they smell great.

In theory they can be sprayed, brushed or wiped on but to date I've been ragging on multiple coats (usually wet to wet) and hand buffing where I want to bring up the gloss a little bit.  I have yet to try their wax topcoat but plan to do so on the dining room floor.

 

I seem to be having some difficulty uploading a picture directly from my PC, any suggestions on what dimensions I should size them to for inclusion in a discussion.

"many complain of the plastic look, I find this is more a case of film thickness and sheen, I can apply and/or rub a water bourne finish to look like about any thing I want..."

 

Hey Charles...interesting...how do you apply and/or rub a water-based finish to make it look like solvent based finish, what kind of materials and techniques do you use?

 

-Ace-

Water bourne is a high solids finish meaning it build's fast, oils , lacquers and so forth have much less solid content, usually you have to go look at MSDS sheets to see the solid content, water will average from 32 to 42 % , lacquers about 19 to 28% , another reason for water bourne cost, you simply put get more actual finish and less water or solvent, just think of it like shellac and pound cuts, the issue with water bourne is , the high solids content make it a film finish, bit so do most oil finishes, they never really look good until you have enough coats  to form a  film of some sort, or better put until the the wood has absorbed all it can and the finish is what is showing , while oils will impart a thin coating, and usually allow grain to show , in woods like cherry and maples to name a few, which are closed grain and dense woods, even oil will fill the grain, oaks and so forth not the case, so the simple solution is to remember that 1 coat of of water base, is equilvent to about 2 or 3 coats of an oil finish, , my favorite for a close to the wood, and oil looking finish., is to  lay down a coat of amber or blond shellac in ablout a 1 lb cut for the ambering effect and seal , the apply a med wet coat of water bourne finish, then as soon as its dry enough to touch give it a quick scuff sand, basically a wipe down to remove any raised grain, then apply a full wet coat, let it  flash off, and apply a third,  for me its usuall about an hour and a half, or so for all the coats,  let it dry over night and your good to go, the key is to use the proper sheen, use a semi gloss or gloss and it will have a plastic look, drop to a dull, matte or satin sheen and the plastic look is not there, if you wish, you can sand it to a glass smooth surface and using some micro mesh or abralon, rub it to what ever sheen you want, one of the keys, is to be able to spray it with a quality gun, and be able to have the finish lay out nice and smooth,

lower gloss sheens afford less plastic look, a satin or matte are my choice, the key is as few of coats as possible and let it dry, and if too shiny, knock the sheen down, some 1000 or 2000 abralon will give you a nice, no plastic, slick low level sheen , 3000 will give you a semi gloss or high satin, 4000, will have it high gloss,

Cool...so it's basically shellac under a satin water-based topcoat? The shellac will provide the gold or amber tone that will  mimic an oil. Thanks man.

 

Another question...I also read... you say the key is to spray with a quality spray gun? Does that mean expensive that cost  hundreds of dollars? I have used, with excellent results, the compressed air spray gun, Bob mentioned above. I also have a compressed air Huskey brand hvlp (a knock off of a better gun, so  I have read) from Home Depot. The way I understand, some water-based finishes are formulated to be either brushed or sprayed, while some are meant to be only sprayed. So if a finish can be brushed or sprayed, do you really need an expensive spray gun? Get the finish on the wood let the finish do its thing, which is to flow out smooth?

 

-Ace-