Top coat, Wax, Poly, Oil???

[acr_scout]

Hello All,

 

Let me start by saying I am not here to start a debate about politics, religion or motor oils I just don't know where to begin with final finishes.

 

I have made a very simple floating shelf out of oak. I finally got it stained to the color/depth I like. I am not a big fan of oak or shiny finishes but "it matches the bathroom cabinets" my wife tells me. I am curious what my options are for finishing this product and stand up in a bathroom environment (steamy showers). 

 

I'd prefer satin if not flat finish.

 

Does stain have to be top-coated?

 

Would a linseed or tong oil be appropriate (I read the blog referenced on here about the difference)?

 

Is flat poly a thing (I read the reference on here about not using sanding sealer with poly)?

 

Can a wax be used as a top coat or should it in a bathroom?

 

Does it matter that I used oil stain?

 

Thank you,
Fred

 

[lew]

Maybe our resident finishing expert @kmealy will jump in here!

[Gene Howe]

Hi Fred. My favorite finish is Watco mixed with oil based poly as a wipe on. So, an oil based stain is no problem. After about 3 coats of the wipe on, I follow with a couple sprayed coats of straight oil based poly. Then, a rub down with JPW applied with Liberon #0000 steel wool. Many would consider it over kill but I use Chas. Neal's trace coat method of sanding the bare wood. It produces a baby's butt smooth surface.

[HandyDan]

Poly has always held up best for me in my bathroom.  I like to use the wipe on poly because it sinks into the wood and seals better.  Downside is the number of coats required.

[acr_scout]

59 minutes ago, HandyDan said:

Poly has always held up best for me in my bathroom.  I like to use the wipe on poly because it sinks into the wood and seals better.  Downside is the number of coats required.

Is there such thing as flat poly?

[acr_scout]

1 hour ago, Gene Howe said:

Hi Fred. My favorite finish is Watco mixed with oil based poly as a wipe on. So, an oil based stain is no problem. After about 3 coats of the wipe on, I follow with a couple sprayed coats of straight oil based poly. Then, a rub down with JPW applied with Liberon #0000 steel wool. Many would consider it over kill but I use Chas. Neal's trace coat method of sanding the bare wood. It produces a baby's butt smooth surface.

I guess I have studying to do. I have no idea what you just said.  

[Gene Howe]

12 minutes ago, acr_scout said:

I guess I have studying to do. I have no idea what you just said.  

What is it that you don't understsnd? I'll be happy to 'splain it.

[HandyDan]

1 hour ago, acr_scout said:

Is there such thing as flat poly?

 

I use Minwax Wipe-on Poly.  It is available in satin and gloss.  Some unthinned poly comes in a matte finish.  I think you would be happy with the satin.

[Gunny]

Satin is as close as you can get to flat in poly.  For a bathroom finish you best bet is an oil based finish.  You want the moisture to not penetrate past the finish at all.  

[kmealy]

A few of my thoughts:

 

I'd prefer satin if not flat finish.

 

 I don't know that I've ever seen a "flat" poly finish.  But there are a few options:

• buy a satin poly finish and let it sit for a while.   The silica that makes the finish flat will settle to the bottom.  Pour off the top half or so. (Save it for when you want a semi-gloss finish).   What remains will have a higher percent of flattener.   Stir it up and you'll have a "less than satin" finish.  Also be aware that only the last coat determines sheen, so you can use the top half of the can on the first few coats and the bottom half on the last.
• abrade the finish once it's cured.  Steel wool, Scotch-Brite, or a rubbing compound all can work, though poly is a "rubbery" finish and does not abrade as well as most others
• switch to a different finish such as oil-varnish blends (e.g., Danish Oil) or lacquer

 

Does stain have to be top-coated?

Does it have to be, no.  Should it?  Yes.  It's a really odd (and misleading) label that Minwax labels their stain products, "Wood Finish"  Stains have minimal to no solids to make a film finish.

 

Would a linseed or tong oil be appropriate (I read the blog referenced on here about the difference)?

*Tung oil.  First, most products labeled "Tung Oil Finish" are wiping varnishes or oil-varnish blends.    Second, oil finishes will have a much lower "moisture excluding efficiency" so in a moist bathroom the wood will undergo a lot of moisture exchange.   But the oils and oil-varnish blends will give you a flatter, "in the wood" finish, and less abrasion resistance.

 

Is flat poly a thing (I read the reference on here about not using sanding sealer with poly)?

See first point.   It depends on the "sanding sealer"   The stearated ones (ones with soapy additives to sand out quickly) do not do well under poly because of adhesion issues.   And left too thick under any finish, they tend to be soft and when dented will fracture and whiten (DAMHIKT, I had an end table that I had to fix twice, cleaning it down to the wood before it even left the showroom).   Zinsser Seal Coat is just a misleadingly labeled wax free shellac and works great under any finish (or by itself)

 

Can a wax be used as a top coat or should it in a bathroom?

You can use wax as a "waxed finish".   By this, I mean any finish that you top off with wax.  This is different from a "wax finish" where wax is the only finish.    While wax will bead up water drops, it does not do well against water vapor (see discussion about oil finishes and moisture excluding)

 

Does it matter that I used oil stain?

It's OK unless you plan to use a water-borne finish, in which case let it cure very well

[PeteM]

I make wooden soap dishes for the shower.  Water based poly goes fast (can recoat in an hour or so) and hard.  I find it worth the effort to use gloss undercoats because they dry very clear, then use satin or semi as the last coat (satin/semi has those little silly [silica] things).  Buy a quart of each (gloss/not-gloss), not that expensive.  Water base poly works just fine over oil stain:  just let it dry at least overnight (maybe 24 hours in humid areas; 15 minutes in ShowLow).

[Gene Howe]

15 minutes is stretching it. Raw flank steak to carne seca in 10 minutes. Jerky takes a bit more.