With the Lockwood dyes I use you can add more powder or less to adjust the color. I bought four different dyes in the same color section next to each other. That way I can add a little of one to get a better match if the color is off a bit. I have four cherry dyes mixed if you want to come by and see if any of them will work for you. I know you are in a hurry, but now is not the time to rush.

 

I spay my dye on with the HVLP spray which lets me control how much dye goes on easier and them you can adjust easier to match the color. After spraying the dye and getting the color I want I spray Zinger Sand and Seal, which is a de-waxed shellac on for a seal coat. I usually spray three coats sanding after the second one with 400 grit. After the third I lightly sand with 400 and check my results, if it needs another coat I spray it if not i more to the final coat. For my top coat I like to spray General Finishes Enduro Var. It leave a very hard Varnish finish on the piece. I usually spray four or five coats. It is water based and will dry pretty quick so you can build up a nice smooth finish. I do the same as with the shellac I spray two coats of the Var before sanding and again lightly with 400 grit. When finished it will leave a very smooth finish that has a hard surface.

 

I'll be home today after Church if you want to run by and see if the Cherry dye I have will help you.

5 hours ago, John Moody said:

I spay my dye on with the HVLP spray which lets me control how much dye goes on

Hey John, did you ever have any problem spraying dye onto inside corners? Did you notice it did not quite reach the inside corners leaving the corners slightly lighter than the rest of the flat surface? If you have not noticed that, than you are doing something different than I am, and I'd like to know what it is!

6 hours ago, John Morris said:

Hey John, did you ever have any problem spraying dye onto inside corners? Did you notice it did not quite reach the inside corners leaving the corners slightly lighter than the rest of the flat surface? If you have not noticed that, than you are doing something different than I am, and I'd like to know what it is!

 

No idea what I would be doing different but I have not had that problem. I made a bigger mess of corners when I tried to brush or wipe it on than when I spray it.

 

 

1 hour ago, John Moody said:

 

No idea what I would be doing different but I have not had that problem. I made a bigger mess of corners when I tried to brush or wipe it on than when I spray it.

 

 

Maybe I'm not getting enough in the corners, hmmm. I had the problem once, then I never sprayed again. I may try a test project in the future using spray.

I usually spray corners first and try to stay off them as I make my next passes. Let up on the trigger.

All I have been doing this for years and it works.  Please see the following recipe.

1. Obtain some scrap of the same species as your project.

2. Sand to 220 better yet 400.

3. Apply some (not soaking but a wet surface) with distilled or reverse osmosis water.

4. Let it dry then sand off the roughness with 400.  (Prevents the dye from raising the grain because you pre-raised it.)

5. Use a water based dye (if alcohol you can omit 3 and 4.)  to color the background of the wood.  (Ash made dark brown for example).

5. Seal the dye with 1# cut of shellac to keep the dye in place. Do not do more than one coat and sand off roughness (400).

6. Stain to bring out or highlight the foreground.  (Stain is the same material as dye just more coarsely ground.  It sticks in the open pours.)  Ash with brown dye but black stain for example.  Now ash resembles chestnut or other brown wood with a black stain.

7. Apply your favorite top coat. Being careful to lay to top coat on over brushing will displace the stain.

8. Get approval from the customer.

9. Restart at 1 or do 2 thru 7 to finish your project.

Notes: Dye is a very fine pigment that is suspended in either water or alcohol.

Stain is a fine pigment that is suspended in water or alcohol or oil.

Generally dye and stain are kid safe after the solvent has been removed (Evaporated) but check the label to be sure.

Document every phase of your finishing schedule so it can be replicated with precision.

Soft woods - Pine - are colored very effectively with dye and do NOT blotch.

After my wood is sealed I use a vacuum to keep the wood dust free. 

Basic color theory:

 

* Three primary colors are   RED, YELLOW, and BLUE

 

* Secondary colors are binary combinations of two primary colors

     Orange = Red + Yellow

     Green   = Blue + Yellow

     Purple  = Blue + Red

 

To neutralize a color (and shift to brown), you add the color opposite.   Two ways to remember opposites

1 Holidays 

     Red x Green    (Christmas)

     Yellow x Purple  (Easter)

     Orange x Blue   (you're on your own on this one, but these are colors of my Alma Mater, University of Illinois)

2. The color opposites are

     Primary color x (Secondary color of other two primary colors)

 

Apply neutralizers in tiny steps and remember that the top finish is also going to contribute to the final color.

 

So to tone down a "too red" you need to add its color opposite, green.

I tend to prefer glazes as they give me fine control through manipulation during application (wipe off more or less)

The "green" glaze is known as "raw umber."

 

You can also use toners (sprayed on) of the appropriate color.

 

You can also use various combinations of stains (dye or pigment) but it takes a lot more experimentation and careful documentation to repeat what your tests yield.

On 8/25/2016 at 5:33 PM, Michael Thuman said:

Notes: Dye is a very fine pigment that is suspended in either water or alcohol.

Stain is a fine pigment that is suspended in water or alcohol or oil.

 

 

"Stain" means different things to different people.   I tend to use it as anything that colors wood.

 

However, the principle difference between a dye [stain] and a pigment [stain] is that

• dyes are dissolved in the solvent (water, alcohol, oil)
• pigments are suspended in their carrier (glycol ethers, varnishes, oil) that also serves a binder to hold the particles in place once the carrier/binder has evaporated / cured.

 

Back in elementary school, we went home and put sugar in a mason jar of water and a scoop of dirt in a mason jar with water.   The next day at school, the sugar was still dissolved in water but the dirt fell out of suspension and was at the bottom of the jar.

 

Common stains, like Minwax, are pigment, dye, or both, depending upon the color.   In a can that's sat a while, put in a clean stir stick.  If there's sediment at the bottom, that's the pigment and needs to be stirred back into suspension. If the stick is fairly uncolored at the top, then it's pigment only,   If there is no sediment at the bottom, but the stick is evenly colored, it's the dye.  

 

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/understanding_stains

I have had terrible results with a water based dye/stain then putting a water based clear finish over it.

The clear finish get muddy and hides the wood.

 

Thank you all for the input to the original post! The project I was working on turned out ok and the customer was very satisfied with it in the end. I certainly have learned a lot reading all of your posts on the topic.

On 9/2/2016 at 5:33 AM, Michael Thuman said:

I have had terrible results with a water based dye/stain then putting a water based clear finish over it.

The clear finish get muddy and hides the wood.

 

Ya that's a no no Michael, the water in the water based finish can and will re-activate the water based dye. Big no no.

15 hours ago, John Morris said:

Ya that's a no no Michael, the water in the water based finish can and will re-activate the water based dye. Big no no.

Guys go back to my original post after the water based dye you must seal it in a #1 cut of shellac.

I know it is a no no and that is why I wrote the post the way I did.

 

1 hour ago, Michael Thuman said:

Guys go back to my original post after the water based dye you must seal it in a #1 cut of shellac.

I know it is a no no and that is why I wrote the post the way I did.

 

Missed that post Michael, your forgiven.