Hey folks! Does anyone have any advice to lend to me on using water soluble dyes? I am giving this a shot this weekend to try and color match an add-on to a media cabinet that is almost a dark antique cherry. I am building this for a group that my wife is involved with so this is more of a honey-do project than anything.

I made the mistake of choosing maple because it was cheaper than cherry but now know the difficulties of finishing maple. I have a couple J.E. Moser dyes (cherry rosewood and cherry Amber maple) being expedited right now because I need to get this done by Sunday. What do you prefer as a finish over a dye? i am definitely a novice on the subject of finishing. I have been researching this a lot the past couple of days and certainly know much more than I did but would love to hear from you guys on this.

 

 

I have only used dye once. It was on quarter sawn white oak kitchen cabinets. Be sure to test your mixes on scraps of your maple. 

After it dries, you'll need to sand again because the water will raise the grain. Then, any top coat can be applied. 

Bailey

Great choice on your dye. Of course, as Gene stated, take your time and color match first on some scrap maple. Gene's idea about sanding after the first wash of dye because of raising grain is a good idea. Considering that though, I have had great success with sanding first to 180, then before you apply the dye, take a wet rag and wash the project with water, pre-raising the grain, then sand it once again, this way you don't have to sand the raised grain after you apply the dye, which can be tricky because you may sand past the color. Now the grain may raise just slightly after you apply the dye, do not sand it, the raising will be minimal and any finish you apply over it will smooth out the raised grain.

 

Keep your dye applicator well saturated with dye, and wet. Wash the project with the grain, always with the grain, make sure to take care of runs and drips immediately, you could have some streaks if you don't. 

And the most important thing to remember is, when you apply the dye, often it looks really crappy! It looks uneven in color, streaky, and more, don't wipe it again, do not wipe it again, the discoloration and the unevenness of the color will disappear when the water evaporates out of the wood and the pigment. Your natural instinct is to take care of the unevenness in color as you work, do not do that, just let it dry and it will all level out.

 

As for a finish, since you are using water based dye, you'll want to use a water based finish of your choice. If you insist on using an oil based finish (my preference) then you can seal the project with shellac first, then you can use an oil based finish on top of the shellac. Or, you may just decide to go with shellac the whole way. 

 

For a perfect match with the existing media cabinet, you'll have to use the exact same finishing schedule on the test piece of maple. Whatever your process is on the test piece, you'll use on your final project. So with the test piece, you'll sand it to 180, raise the grain with water, sand it again to 180, then apply your dye, coat with shellac (if that is what your using) then apply your final top coat of your finish. You'll need to follow the exact same step on your scrap, as your final project to achieve the perfect match to your media cabinet, if you do not, you'll be completely disappointed with the match.

 

If you care to elaborate, what type of finish do you want? Glossy, satin, and what are you going to use for your finish?

Have fun!

 

 

John Moody is my go to dye expert.  He turned me to Lockwood dyes about 18 months ago.  The process is easy peasy if you raise the grain first, sand it back, mist it and then apply the dye.  I've done smaller projects so I spray my dye on with a spray bottle.  If its too dark just wipe it back.

Wonderful tutorial, John. I wish you had been around here 15 years ago when I was dying my cabinets. 

 

11 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

Wonderful tutorial, John. I wish you had been around here 15 years ago when I was dying my cabinets. 

 

My pleasure Gene.

I love using dye, it opens up a whole new world of staining. Thanks for the kudos!

Thank you all for the input. While I am anxious to get this piece finished I am quite intrigued by the world of dyes and the possibilities it opens up. My wife typically does the finishing on projects but is pregnant and has not been feeling well. Also don't really want her messing with the chemicals. I will have to give John Moody a call Ron. 

 

Gene,

I was thinking satin lacquer after a coat of shellac as you described. If it is slightly off in color it won't be a huge deal in this instance because of where and how it will be sitting but it will bother me. Just hoping to get it really close at this point.

Hopefully Moody will be on so he can input his wisdom on this as well Baily. He's been using dyes on his chests exclusively I believe.

Could someone please enlighten me re: the need for the use of shellac over a dried dye job. Especially, if the dye is water soluble.

3 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Could someone please enlighten me re: the need for the use of shellac over a dried dye job. Especially, if the dye is water soluble.

Gene, I left out, if you are using a water based finish you need to seal the surface with a sealer such as shellac to prevent the water based finish from reactivating the water based dye and having the risk of smudges and discoloration.

If you are using oil base finish that is not an issue.

I miss spoke about the need to use a water base finish. 

On a side note, I don't use water base, I have not gone to that camp yet, just can't do it. 

Ok. Makes perfect sense, now.

I'm in the same camp. Old ways are hard to abandon.

32 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

Ok. Makes perfect sense, now.

I'm in the same camp. Old ways are hard to abandon.

Brothers!!!!

Got my shipment of dyes in and the color I thought would be closest has way too much red in it. I was expecting the red tone to be much lighter than it was. Any ideas? I tried a couple dark brown stains I had on hand over the top but it was too dark and muddy after that.

17 minutes ago, Rlbailey3 said:

Got my shipment of dyes in and the color I thought would be closest has way too much red in it. I was expecting the red tone to be much lighter than it was. Any ideas? I tried a couple dark brown stains I had on hand over the top but it was too dark and muddy after that.

Is too red to even dilute it to make it work? Or is just plain ol too read to do anything with it?

4 minutes ago, John Morris said:

Is too red to even dilute it to make it work? Or is just plain ol too read to do anything with it?

I am going to try dilution in the morning but I will need to pull some brown in for sure.  Here is a pic of what I've got. The red is a little more intense in person I think.

 

Bailey, you have to click on the uploaded image to place it in your text area. Let me know if you need help!

Sorry here is the pic.

It's not bad though, I can definitely see how you would purchase a redder dye, I see it too in the original piece. Let us know how it works out by knocking down the pigments with dilution.

I will. It is tough comparing the colors on a computer screen when you have never used them before haha. Live and learn though.

1 minute ago, Rlbailey3 said:

I will. It is tough comparing the colors on a computer screen when you have never used them before haha. Live and learn though.

Definitely live and learn! That is the slogan for woodworking! You know, cut it again and it's still too short? We all done it and been there.