Okay I have been asked to build some cabinets and have been provided with drawings, (if you call them that) of what they want and the spec.

 

Here is a shot of the cabinet layout.

 

 

Here is a detail of the cabinet.

 

 Now my question is this. Look at the side of the door and the specs. The door frame is to be built out of 3/4" material and have a 1/2" plexi-glass panel. That only leaves 1/8' on the inside and outside if I build this like their drawing. I think I should cut a rabbit and put a cleat (can't remember the proper name) on the inside or some else to hold the plex-glass in so it could be removed if it became broken.

 

The only great thing about their drawings is they are showing a 4" toe kick and specking 2x material. Well that will only be 3 1/2". I got to build this in my shop and then transport them 180 miles to the installation site.

 

Anyway, I will have several other question of you guys on this but what do you think about this door?

 

 

I'm with you John.  1/8 on a side is pretty thin.  I think a rabbit with a cleat or a flush fastener looks a whole bunch sturdier.

John..

The plans need a lot of work.  The door design is poor.  Suggest you meet with the designer and talk about your issues with the design and your construction issues.

Larry

I'm gonna write it up late tonight.  Check it in morning.

 

could it be john that they meant 1/4" plexiglass.  normal plexiglass is only 1/8 and heavy duty is 1/4. i don't even recall seeing 1/2 plexiglass but then i could be wrong. just my thought

Or.............if it is 1/2" plexi..........you could add a bead moulding to the doors with a rabit . hockey sticks fire.........if they wanted 1" plexi............all you would have to do is make a wider bead moulding. That could really be a "raised panel" then. :-)

Ron that was sorts what I was thinking. Use something on the inside.

Ron Dudelston said:

I'm with you John.  1/8 on a side is pretty thin.  I think a rabbit with a cleat or a flush fastener looks a whole bunch sturdier.

You are correct about the plans needing work. I have already sent them a list of mistakes. The bookshelf is to be 10' high, but the ceiling is 9' 7". My son works fir the contractor doing this job. He came home and told me, I got us a job, I'm not sure he did us a favor.

I hope the send me the corrections and answers to my questions.

Larry Jenkins said:

John..

The plans need a lot of work.  The door design is poor.  Suggest you meet with the designer and talk about your issues with the design and your construction issues.

Larry

Thanks Mike, I'll check it in the morning.

dragon1 said:

I'm gonna write it up late tonight.  Check it in morning.

 

You know Paul with the other mistakes in the construction drawings you may be right. It bothers me that they have the plexiglass in a dado. I'll check that measurement with them also.

Paul Whitmarsh said:

could it be john that they meant 1/4" plexiglass.  normal plexiglass is only 1/8 and heavy duty is 1/4. i don't even recall seeing 1/2 plexiglass but then i could be wrong. just my thought

LOL you may be right about it being a raise glass panel door.

Gary Heltemes said:

Or.............if it is 1/2" plexi..........you could add a bead moulding to the doors with a rabit . hockey sticks fire.........if they wanted 1" plexi............all you would have to do is make a wider bead moulding. That could really be a "raised panel" then. :-)

Remember what happened to Ralph Jones when he didn't take the measurements himself. The cabinets didn't fit and he had to redo the whole job at his cost.

 

Harry

Ok, first off, 1/2 in. plexiglass is SUPER expensive and will add considerable weight.

 

Use regular plexiglass or actual glass and use a 1/4 inch quarter round behind it to hold in the panes (don't forget a little drop of silicone to keep it from rattling whether you use glass or plexi.

 

Another consideration is slide by panels that you could make tracks for top and bottom out of some thin strips of plywood and round the panel corners (just a little) to make them slide easy.

 

Door frame needs to be same width as face frame and you'll have to edge band  door and faceframe edges with oak edgebanding unless you make the doorframe and faceframe out of solid oak.

 

Faceframe and doorframes made from 2 in. solid oak.  Doorframes assembled with 2 screws per corner, countersunk and plugged and the screws need to be at least 3/4 inch from inside edge so when you rabbit inside edge for the (plexi) glass you don't hit a screw.

 

 

As far as the toe kick Rip plywood in 4 inch wide and make a frame with crosspieces to attach it to underside of cabinet frame.  45º corners, glue and finish nails to shoot the frame together 1 1/4 in staples to attach to bottom of cabinet.

 

Those 1x's on top and bottom to hold the back in are gonna look ugly.  Route out the back of the cabinet with a 1/2 inch Rabbit bit to fit the back panel into.  Then use 1 1/4 staples to attach back panel into rabbit.

 

And no need for the other 1x out front behind the top edge either.

 

Plywood shelf gets same edge and is part of the face frame.

 

Use these screws  http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/7050-CSP/7mm-x-50mm-Connecting-Cabinet-Screw

 

And you'll need the countersink for it.  They hold like nothing else.  Once you use them to put the cabinets together you'll use nothing else.  Only one WARNING!!!  Holes need to be accurately placed and plywood needs to be aligned and clamped THEN holes the hole gets drilled, then screwed, then move on to next hole.  (Message me if you have problems with this)

 

All screwholes get plugged.

 

Faceframe assembled with pocketholes and attached with pocketholes drilled around outside of cabinet (except top which gets them on inside and will be hidden by the bottom of the top bar of the face frame )

 

Did I miss anything?

If there's a wide screen going in, that vertical piece in the center will need to be running from top to the bottom and will need to be doubled up plywood.

 

The base is going to have to be extra supported to.

 

Then shelf on left, shelf on right.  both shelves dadoed into center doubled up support.

 

Never split a vertical support. 

 

That makes 3 smaller cabinets and 1 taller cabinet.

 

Don't forget to ask what the wall trim is so you can leave toekick back away from wall.

 

Tall shelves get same construction method as cabinets with same screws, make every other one movable and on those you'll have to drop the depth of the shelf  1 inch.

 

i'll write more as I figure out what else may have been missed

John, it seems you have tackled most of the questions. I have never heard a 1/2" panel in a 3/4" door. Not good construction at all. I am also not a fan of screwed doors. I am picky about things, but good joinery never fails. Cope and stick or mortise and teneon are all I use for door construction. I also tend to overbuild. If the contractor and designer will not go with what you want to build, its best to walk away. Cheap is never a good thing, especially when it looks like these cabinets will be used by teens. You need bulletproof construction for that type of use. Just some thoughts from wintry wisconsin. We are suppose to get 6 to 10" of snow in the next day or two. bob

I know Harry and that is what really bothers me about this job. I am not the one taking measurements and it is not close to me so I can run over and check them. My son does work for the contractor doing this job, so we are talking to them about getting us a better set of working drawings with good measurements.

Reply by Harry Brink 9 hours ago

Delete

Remember what happened to Ralph Jones when he didn't take the measurements himself. The cabinets didn't fit and he had to redo the whole job at his cost.

 

Mike you make some great points. I have requested they check the measurement for the plexiglass I just don't think it should be 1/2" or if it is then those door will have to be made different.

 

As you can see it also doesn't say anything on the drawings about edge banding of any kind anywhere. So I have requested that information also. Is edge banding okay or should I put a solid piece of wood on the edge.

 

The cabinets are all birch plywood, so I will most likely use poplar for the doors. I already have some rough poplar in the shop. What are your thoughts on that.

 

Also if you look close at the second drawing there is no face frame around the cabinets. They are just putting a small piece at the top for the door to rest against and the bottom of the cabinet is the stop for the bottom of the door.

 

I'll let you know what I find out. I don't think you missed anything and thanks.

 

 

I am not sure at this point what is going on that top. Good question, I will pass that along also. I agree about not splitting the vertical.

 

dragon1 said:

If there's a wide screen going in, that vertical piece in the center will need to be running from top to the bottom and will need to be doubled up plywood.

 

The base is going to have to be extra supported to.

 

Then shelf on left, shelf on right.  both shelves dadoed into center doubled up support.

 

Never split a vertical support. 

 

That makes 3 smaller cabinets and 1 taller cabinet.

 

Don't forget to ask what the wall trim is so you can leave toekick back away from wall.

 

Tall shelves get same construction method as cabinets with same screws, make every other one movable and on those you'll have to drop the depth of the shelf  1 inch.

 

i'll write more as I figure out what else may have been missed

Bob, thanks for your comments. I plan on doing M&T on the doors, I am just concerned about the 1/2" in a 3/4" frame. I also would rather overbuild than to have to redo it later.

 

This is a teen area so I am not sure the total use, but I know they can tear up most anything. LOL

 

Sorry about the snow, it will be 84 here today.

 

 

Bob Kloes said:

John, it seems you have tackled most of the questions. I have never heard a 1/2" panel in a 3/4" door. Not good construction at all. I am also not a fan of screwed doors. I am picky about things, but good joinery never fails. Cope and stick or mortise and teneon are all I use for door construction. I also tend to overbuild. If the contractor and designer will not go with what you want to build, its best to walk away. Cheap is never a good thing, especially when it looks like these cabinets will be used by teens. You need bulletproof construction for that type of use. Just some thoughts from wintry wisconsin. We are suppose to get 6 to 10" of snow in the next day or two. bob

I agree John. Its not like you can rabbet the edge of the plexi and make it fit a 1/4" groove. Maybe it is drawn wrong , like someone said. I'm not even sure if plexi would be good. I would think something like an acrylic would be better. Plexi is very brittle.bob

 

ps, its snowing real good right now. I'd settle for half of your 84.....

Solid poplar or oak for face frames and doors is ok, your gonna need it all the way around to provide a flush face for the doors.

 

And my screwed doors hold up just as well as a tenon joint on the corners.

John Moody said:

I know Harry and that is what really bothers me about this job. I am not the one taking measurements and it is not close to me so I can run over and check them. My son does work for the contractor doing this job, so we are talking to them about getting us a better set of working drawings with good measurements.

Reply by

Harry Brink

9 hours ago

Delete

Remember what happened to Ralph Jones when he didn't take the measurements himself. The cabinets didn't fit and he had to redo the whole job at his cost.

 

Mike you make some great points. I have requested they check the measurement for the plexiglass I just don't think it should be 1/2" or if it is then those door will have to be made different.

 

As you can see it also doesn't say anything on the drawings about edge banding of any kind anywhere. So I have requested that information also. Is edge banding okay or should I put a solid piece of wood on the edge.

 

The cabinets are all birch plywood, so I will most likely use poplar for the doors. I already have some rough poplar in the shop. What are your thoughts on that.

 

Also if you look close at the second drawing there is no face frame around the cabinets. They are just putting a small piece at the top for the door to rest against and the bottom of the cabinet is the stop for the bottom of the door.

 

I'll let you know what I find out. I don't think you missed anything and thanks.