If this is a proper enough place to ask a question,,, I am building another compressor. I am going to incorporate a moisture removal system.. Has anyone made a home-brew system beyond just adding a water trap. As it sits, I will be using a radiator from a car between the pump and tank then a water trap, then into the tank, then a desiccant dryer coming out of the tank. I am going to increase the fitting size wherever possible. Everything I have done in the past chokes down to 1/4" at some point and I want to increase that. I am starting with a home-owner level Craftsman 35 gallon tank, a Vevor pump head a Toyota radiator and various do-hickys and Chingaderas.. I have watched a few dozen YT videos but I haven't seen anything like I am thinking..  Any advice???? 

I certainly have not done anything like that. I'm not sure what the radiator is for, but i do question whther it can handle pressures at the level a compressor will reach. Otherwise, if you do this I'd be interested in pics and a report on how it works.

I would certainly recommend caution a  radiator is designed to hold 15 to 20 lbs. press a compressor considerably more, the idea is to lower the temp of the air so i might look for an old A coil from a home AC unit it might hold the pressure better, BUT BE CAREFULL you could be building a bomb and not realize it😱

7 minutes ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

I certainly have not done anything like that. I'm not sure what the radiator is for, but i do question whther it can handle pressures at the level a compressor will reach. Otherwise, if you do this I'd be interested in pics and a report on how it works.

The concept is hot air holds a lot more moisture than cold air. Since the pump gets real hot the air comes out hot. To effectively remove the moisture, the air has to be chilled. That explains the radiator. This is a new style radiator with aluminum core and plastic tanks. The water portion of the radiator will not hold very much pressure, however, the transmission cooler core should. I can't find a pressure rating for the core but transmissions can build up 140 PSI. Most after market tranny coolers are rated at 500 PSI or more. I tested this core at 90 PSI.. It is a bit of a crap shoot but I don't have any real investment into the project. All the major components are auction buys that I got for an opening bid of $1.00 ea 

4 minutes ago, Rusty S said:

I would certainly recommend caution a  radiator is designed to hold 15 to 20 lbs. press a compressor considerably more, the idea is to lower the temp of the air so i might look for an old A coil from a home AC unit it might hold the pressure better, BUT BE CAREFULL you could be building a bomb and not realize it😱

I just addressed that.. The air will go through the tranny cooler core and will only be pressurized then the motor is running.. We'll see,, it's experimental doing it this way but a lot of people use after market tranny coolers that have a high rating.. Your idea is good.. I hadn't thought of that.. I get all these parts at an auction that no one else bids on.. When I see a $400 item going for a buck,, I feel obligated to buy it. 

Plenty window air conditioners get thrown out each year.  The coils from one would do a good job for what you need.  Spray some brake cleanedr through to remove any oil residue.  

In another life, I ran a Scuba shop which included owning an air compressor and air filtration system for breathing air. The operating pressure was close to 4000psi.

 

You didn't mention, but I'm assuming you are going to store the dried air in a pressurized tank. The CFM and max working pressure of the compressor will have some effect.

 

A couple off physics principals. When air is compressed, it gets heated. When compressed air is released, it cools. When air cools it cannot hold moisture. 

 

The easiest way to cool compressed air is through a venturi principle. Drying is easily done using a molecular sieve. Staged drying will increase efficiency.

 

One thing, from your description, I would  definitely do is perform ALL drying BEFORE storage in a tank. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You probably can purchase a used aluminum automotive A/C condenser pretty reasonable from an auto salvage yard. Most of those will easily stand 500 psi.

 

I WOULD NOT use an automotive radiator or even the transmission oil cooler integral to one. I don't think it would accomplish what you want to do anyway. Possibly using a separate HD transmission oil cooler like installed on many pickups when towing would work, but I'd go with the A/C condenser coil.

 

Like Dan said, flush it thoroughly with brake cleaner or maybe acetone to remove any refrigerate oil residue.

9 hours ago, HandyDan said:

Plenty window air conditioners get thrown out each year.  The coils from one would do a good job for what you need.  Spray some brake cleanedr through to remove any oil residue.  

Thanks, I am considering that as a back up plan if this fails...  I will point out that folks in 49 states nonchalantly make the statement about discarded refrigeration items when it is a felony for folks on the left coast to discard such items. To do it legally, you have to start with an enviroMENTAL impact report, after that is approved and fees are paid, you can start the permitting process, once certifications are verified and proper PPE has been inspected, you can purchase carbon credits from an approved commercial carbon credit accommodator. Then the disposal process can get under way. All roadways have to be closed wherever the item will transported. When you arrive at the delousing/recovery center, and wait in line in your auto for 4 or 5 hours, your paperwork and credentials are verified, you go through a training course so you understand how Freon is turned into HairGel. You then sign several more waivers, sworn testimonies, disclosures, and affidavits, take the oath, pay the fees, get finger printed, facial scanned, and have your retina's recorded, and drop off your item with an enviroMENTAL tech for proper disassembly, recovery, and recycling.. So, I'll just drive a few miles and get one from a dumpster behind a store in Nevada  

2 hours ago, Grandpadave52 said:

You probably can purchase a used aluminum automotive A/C condenser pretty reasonable from an auto salvage yard. Most of those will easily stand 500 psi.

 

I WOULD NOT use an automotive radiator or even the transmission oil cooler integral to one. I don't think it would accomplish what you want to do anyway. Possibly using a separate HD transmission oil cooler like installed on many pickups when towing would work, but I'd go with the A/C condenser coil.

 

Like Dan said, flush it thoroughly with brake cleaner or maybe acetone to remove any refrigerate oil residue.

That is being considered as an option.. Why do you think my set-up will not be effective and what would the difference be with an external Tranny cooler vs an internal? I tried to get the specs on the one I am using but no one knows whereas the aftermarket external units all state the rating...        Funny,,  I can't just "get an AC coil" in CA but I am in NV often.. It isn't a deterrent for me and if I want  one I will get one or if even see one somewhere, it just takes a short trip.. 

Doesn't each of those steps cause cancer? Asking for a concerned friend😜

8 hours ago, lew said:

In another life, I ran a Scuba shop which included owning an air compressor and air filtration system for breathing air. The operating pressure was close to 4000psi.

 

You didn't mention, but I'm assuming you are going to store the dried air in a pressurized tank. The CFM and max working pressure of the compressor will have some effect.

 

A couple off physics principals. When air is compressed, it gets heated. When compressed air is released, it cools. When air cools it cannot hold moisture. 

 

The easiest way to cool compressed air is through a venturi principle. Drying is easily done using a molecular sieve. Staged drying will increase efficiency.

 

One thing, from your description, I would  definitely do is perform ALL drying BEFORE storage in a tank. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is just a standard compressed air system with a max pressure of 125. It will dry by chilling and trapping before the tank with a desiccant after the tank to grab any residuals. How would a venturi be incorporated in my system without restricting flow? My options are limited 

7 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Doesn't each of those steps cause cancer? Asking for a concerned friend😜

Yes they do and it keeps the doctors busy.. It is odd but accepted that is only happens on the left side of the border, one foot to the RIGHT and it is completely safe.. 

5 minutes ago, Woke up with wood said:

That is being considered as an option.. Why do you think my set-up will not be effective and what would the difference be with an external Tranny cooler vs an internal? I tried to get the specs on the one I am using but no one knows whereas the aftermarket external units all state the rating...        Funny,,  I can't just "get an AC coil" in CA but I am in NV often.. It isn't a deterrent for me and if I want  one I will get one or if even see one somewhere, it just takes a short trip.. 

An integral oil cooler in the bottom tank of a radiator is nothing more than an enclosed "tube" allowing fluid to flow in one port and out while the "coolant" in the bottom of the radiator flows/ circulates around the tube. Engine coolant is at "coolest" point in the bottom of the radiator so basically just controls/ stabilizes the transmission fluid temperature. Hope this makes sense?

3 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

An integral oil cooler in the bottom tank of a radiator is nothing more than an enclosed "tube" allowing fluid to flow in one port and out while the "coolant" in the bottom of the radiator flows/ circulates around the tube. Engine coolant is at "coolest" point in the bottom of the radiator so basically just controls/ stabilizes the transmission fluid temperature. Hope this makes sense?

I understand how they work. An external unit has only a few feet of tubing and a limited number of cooling fins. An internal unit has the added benefit of a much bigger area to catch wind and water (if used) to help the heat exchange.. A tranny cooler can be 5" X 12" or bigger or smaller and the 1/2" tube can loop 6 times with large fins paced 1/2" apart. Those are known to be very efficient on this type of set-up..  I haven't checked the volume of the internal yet but the radiator is 18" X 32" and will be very efficient as a heat exchanger so that entire surface will be working in my favor.. There will also be forces air from the flywheel and I have an electric fan if needed...

These work very very well, you could take it apart to see how they did it. I used several of these at work ( art publishing business ) and they solved our issues with moisture in the air lines, both blowing out framed art and eliminating water in the machines. Each machine had a small water trap, after the installation of HF filter, no water in the machines water traps, even after several months of operation, zero water past the HF filter.

 

 

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-npt-industrial-air-filterregulator-with-gauge-58547.html

 

 

Here what I was thinking when I commented on the design-

 

It could all be built from Schedule 80 PVC. 3" has a rating of 370psi. The moisture separator work on the venturi principal. The air expands as it enters the separator, cools and the moisture condenses out. Air then travels thru the dryer and any additional moisture is absorbed by the molecular sieve (Linde 3X) dried air is stored in the tank ready for use. 

 

The venturi action really won't restrict the available air because you are using the air from the filled air tank supply.

 

Air moisture indicators can be added to the dryer to indicate when the desiccant is no longer effective.  

Good idea Lew, your getting a lot better with Sketchup! 

4 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

Good idea Lew, your getting a lot better with Sketchup! 

That would have taken me a month to figure out 

12 hours ago, lew said:

Here what I was thinking when I commented on the design-

 

It could all be built from Schedule 80 PVC. 3" has a rating of 370psi. The moisture separator work on the venturi principal. The air expands as it enters the separator, cools and the moisture condenses out. Air then travels thru the dryer and any additional moisture is absorbed by the molecular sieve (Linde 3X) dried air is stored in the tank ready for use. 

 

The venturi action really won't restrict the available air because you are using the air from the filled air tank supply.

 

Air moisture indicators can be added to the dryer to indicate when the desiccant is no longer effective.  

Thank you for taking the time to do this. If I understand correctly, The hot air coming from the pump (which is mounted on the tank) will automatically cool via venturi effect while entering the water trap through a 1/2" line. The moisture will immediately separate from the air due to it's newfound lower temperature and exit the water trap through another 1/2" line and go into custom manufactured Desiccant chamber with visually color indicating desiccant. To manufacture said chamber, would require 1 stick of Sch 80 PVC $100.00 and 2 end caps $40.00 ea. A filter element $75.00 (+/-) and misc. fittings and materials to complete fabrication.  Since PVC is not usually threaded, I would have to locate someone with the equipment  willing to thread the ends and I can drill and tap the end caps to accommodate the 1/2 NPT fittings which will give the aluminum adaptors approx 2 threads of bite in the PVC end caps. I would fabricate a mounting system that accommodates a water trap and a desiccant chamber and all the plumbing in a small area that will be very hot. To visually check the desiccant would require removal and complete disassembly of the desiccant chamber, then reassembly, sealing the threaded PVC joints, replacing the aluminum (single use) adaptors and pressure/leak testing and remounting..

This is where I get lost": 1) to create cold by any method, heat has to be removed, since that will take place inside a small enclosed chamber, where does that heat go? 2)All water trap manufactures insist that the trap be placed a minimum of 25 to 50 feet from the pump to be effective. 3) my understanding of the venturi effect requires significant reduction (restriction) of flow. How does that occur with an outlet the same size as the inlet? If restriction does occur, how would that not reduce the  CFM capacity of the pump and why wouldn't it create extra stress on the pump and drive motor?  Are you suggesting the use of a commercially available water  trap or a custom fabricated unit? 

 

Others have suggested that I am creating a Sleeping Giant that would put Hiroshima to shame but I haven't seen an explanation. It has been suggested that an external, stand alone tranny cooler (which can't be thermally connected to anything), would be more effective than the internal unit which is integrated (thermally connected) with an extensive cooling system designed to cool an internal combustion engine and a transmission.  Even though I adhere to the Safety Third methodology, and I am not all that concerned about OSHA or other rules, I would still like to keep all of my fingers and not die in an explosion. Any and ALL Sch.'s of PVC is not rated (or allowed) for compressed air. What is the advantage of your suggested custom manufactured desiccant chamber over a commercially available, off the shelf unit with a clear pop-off bowl? 

Obviously I am completely disconnected from reality and I openly admit that I am not as fearless as some of the roofers I have known over the years and I was a little intimated when I was testing the last compressor I built without the belt guard in place. (in the 70's,roofers were losing fingers faster than a junkie looses braincells) when truck mounted compressors were becoming commonplace on jobsites but belt guards were not as good as they should be. This is mentioned because it was my intension to use my $1.00 (one dollar) Atomic radiator bomb as the belt guard. I have spent my entire life working with dangerous equipment starting when I was 16 (identifying as 18) operating a table saw in a production shop with NO guards and still nothing scares me more than shattering pressurized PVC. There will have to be some solid advantages for me to use it and I will install scatter shields...  Looking forward to a follow-up..