Not being able to work I spent the day watching YouTube and this popped up.

 

I've ignored the warnings and glued end grain to side grain in cabinet faces.  Once, the least I need to admit to, I made a mistake and had to break a frame apart and was very surprised at the strength of it. 

There were a whole bunch of follow-ups on the original post.  Created quite the controversy for about 3 weeks.  But seriously, when was the last time that you did an end-grain to end-grain glue up?   I only do it for alignment. 

Though a few years ago, the tech from Titebond, Bob Beneke (sp?) did a seminar here and glued together two 1x2 poplar boards (that I had cut, just to make sure there was no magic) with Quick & Thick.  In about 20 minutes it was hard to break by hand, he had to step on it.  I have since been using it for picture frames and other miter joints.  It couldn't hoyt.

Wow, hard to argue with that. Thanks!

Some time ago, there was a guy whose name escapes me sold a CD about his methods of cabinet making. He also sold some tools and hardware associated. Any way, his way of treating end grain to end grain glue ups was to size the mating surfaces with a solution of a bit of water and regular Titebond. He rubbed it in with his finger and, let it dry a few minutes before using the glue at full strength.

I believe that Scott Phillips from American Woodshop does the same thing.

I've used a bunch of finger jointed paint grade moulding.  That's pretty close to an end grain glue up

While the current glues are pretty good at sticking wood to wood no matter how you orient it, I've had to break glued joints apart many time when teaching.  Not often, but when a student didn't do a test assembly before gluing up and discovered their chair frame or table frame wouldn't go together.  In most cases I was close enough by to hear their sudden realization and the glue was still wet.  Some times though it would be next class day before the student would show me their mistake.   Pulls with a hydraulic press were out of the question.  A heavy hammer against a scrap block against one side of their joint would do the job with relatively minor damage. Any side grain wood that came off with the end grain end would be glued back in place when the part had been trimmed to fit and then glued back together in the correct order.  Butt joints weren't common, but a rap on the side would usually shear the joint open with no side grain failure. 

4D   

Think about it, next time you glue up a picture frame.....or, glue up a dado joints for the back of a drawer...or, just about any miter joint...

Actually Steve that is the next video (Glueing Miter Joints) in his series, I haven't watched it as yet

The theory that Phillips used was (I believe) that the first application of glue <thinned> would fill in gapes in the wood making more surface for glue to hold. I think the first glue was only allowed to get tacky. I don't hold this as effective for important joints but might work otherwise.

I had a problem with the wood frame the wife had me make for the stained glass picture we delivered to Austin and hung in the stair way going to the second floor. I made the frame 3 or 4" wide so this frame had more glue area that the regular frames I make practically every day for my lovely, then delivered and installed it.

 Some time later we got a call saying her beautiful stained glass picture had crashed all the way down on the floor. It was in a big pile with glass every where.

  So, every one has their own opinion and for me not to have to worry anymore and especially since I make probably 50 frames a year of all sizes.  I do this to all my frames now.

  I really thought I was great at building picture frames since I had gotten a lot of experience in those 10 years before the crash happened..

 So now I don't have to worry.

 

for all the frames I build has 1/8" bb in each corner. 

And here is the way I get the exact size slot cut for the BB. Give a little help to the saw blade and there it is.

 

Everyone has their own opinion and am glad I only have to worry about what I make. 

 smallpatch

What isn't usually tested about glue joints is how they perform over time.  I've lived long enough to discover things I epoxied together fall apart.  The epoxy appeared to have turned to dust.  I've used contact cement to glue laminate to the sides  of a particle board cube stool and seen the sides pop off suddenly after 10 years or so.  As modern glues seem much like plastic when set it doesn't surprise me that under continuous load the plastic will deform and eventually fail.  That may be why the frame around stained glass failed without the corners being reinforced. 

How long a joint lasts under a constant normal load is not easily tested and shown in a YouTube video. Sudden failure under atypical increasing stress makes for a more exciting video. 

Furniture designs that have tension where boards join together, like chairs with splayed legs joined by stretchers, are constantly pulling on the joint.  More so when in use.  I suspect most of us have encountered similar chairs that are coming apart at those joints despite having seemed very solid and useful for several years before failing.  The glue eventually gave up. 

4D

 Now you are changing the types of glue joints that were mentioned  in original post. Totally different completely.

  This frame was in her house about three years and most of the time I use Titebond III on the joints that wil be having more stress and elmers yellow for the narrow frames like in the picture.

  So my way of thinking why worry when its not that much more expense to the project and let the rest of the world take the chances.

And by the .way, this is the only times end to end gluing happens in my shop.

An older thread but it provoke me to dig up this old sample joint I made of an end to end grain "finger" joint. Adds some side grain gluing surface to the matching end grain to end grain surfaces in the joint.

 

Just in case  you don't trust a pure end grain to and grain connection. 

4D

4 hours ago, 4DThinker said:

Just in case  you don't trust a pure end grain to and grain connection. 

 You do put a CNC to the tests

8 minutes ago, DuckSoup said:

 You do put a CNC to the tests

Can't help it.  Same with every other tool I've paid good money for.  Taught Furniture Design to college students. When they had a joinery challenge in their design I never said "No", but would sleep on the challenge and usually have a sample cut for a solution the next class period. Creative use of the bandsaw or hand held router with jigs/fixtures to control how the board was fed through or the tool was moved over the wood.   Nothing like creative college students to keep me busy and challenged.  

4D