Abrasive paste

[Bob Hodge]

I am cross posting this from here to the finishing forum as well.  I hope that is OK.

 

I'm seeing a lot of Youtube videos about Yorkshire Grit and home made alternatives for use on turned bowls and spindles.

Some combination of beeswax, mineral spirits, and various fine gritted compounds. The DIY version usually has diatomaceouos

earth - seems like a very fine clay of some sort.

These guys sand to 220, seal with nitrocellulose sanding sealer, then rub this stuff on with a paper towel It appears that it all 

is sanding the sanding sealer more than the wood.  

They then suggest that one can then put on a drying finish such as poly, lacquer or shellac.

Well, this seems contrary to just about anything I think I know about putting a finish like this over wax

 

So, four questions:

. Do you use this stuff?

.  Store bought or home made?

.  Do you put a finish on top? What kind?

.  if yes to the above, can you explain how it is that a drying finish can go well over it?

 

Thanks

Robert

[Gerald]

I answered in Woodworking but now just got this in email from Wood World of Texas.

 

[Bob Hodge]

Hey, this is great. Thanks for thinking of me today.

[Bob Hodge]

Well, I'm a believer.

I watched the videos online to find that the suggested homemade abrasive paste concoctions all have almost exactly the same ingredients and proportions of

beeswax, mineral oil and diatomaceous earth. It took me some time to be able to say "diatomaceous" or figure out what it is.  (Fossilized grasses with lots of nano cutting surfaces).

 

I made a batch yesterday and tried it today. I have a number of plates and bowls finished with Danish oil, then, gloss poly, satin poly, and Waterlox, all that needed some next step to finish the finish beyond what I had done - combinations of wet sanding with finish or paint thinner up to 2000 grit.  

 

The abrasive paste works really well on finished surfaces.  I found the abrasiveness to be quite uniform, something I wasn't sure of from a pile of fossilized grasses.

After using it, I cleaned it all off, cleaning the wax/mineral oil/earth mixture off. I will put on a final, thin coat of wax and call it good, actually, quite satisfactory.

 

Thanks to those who have helped me think through this.

 

As I get to sanding raw wood before an oil finish, I will try this paste on that.

 

 

[Larry Buskirk]

From Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

 

It also works well as a metal polish.

 

[RustyFN]

I heard there is a food grade DE. I have some for my pool. I will have to look to see if it is food grade.

[Gerald]

Note A Diatom was actually a small creature with hard shell not grass. If you look at Larry's reference you will also see a electron microscope pic of diatoms, pretty crusty stuff. by the way another use is to kill slugs. sprinkle it out in lines and when the slug crosses it they are sliced.

 

I think you discovery that all these are almost exactly alike. The idea of finishing the finish is a great application of the product and no wory about finish over it.

[Bob Hodge]

I have seen references to diatoms as microscopic organisms, thinking they were critters.  I also wondered why people would care about food grade diatomaceous earth.

From WebMd, however, comes this:

Diatomaceous earth is a type of powder made from the sediment of fossilized algae found in bodies of water. Because the cells of these algae were high in a compound called silica, the dried sediment produced from these fossils are also very high in silica. These deposits are found all over the world. The ancient Greeks used diatomaceous earth to make building materials, like bricks and blocks. Later on it became popular in Europe for various industrial uses.

When taken by mouth, diatomaceous earth is used as a source of silica, for treating high cholesterol levels, for treating constipation, and for improving the health of skin, nails, teeth, bones, and hair.

 

Well, this just gives new meaning to "Go eat dirt".  

[Bob Hodge]

I must say that this has upped my finishing game a big notch. Nicer finish, and a whole lot faster. What's not to like?

 

Some here and some videos talk about using this stuff on raw wood before putting an oil based finish over that. 

That makes sense as the oil based finish would not be affected by the underlying wax or mineral oil.

Still, it would leave that soft wax and uncured mineral oil under the finish. One would be taking a big risk to use it before putting lacquor on top. 

 

I'm thinking of mixing some of the diatomaceous earth with some danish oil that will indeed dry. I use danish oil now with 600 or up to 1000 grit sandpaper to wet sand and fill pores.

 

Anybody see a problem with that?  I've not seen any reference to it in what I have seen or read.

 

Who would think that we get into this much chemistry with woodworking?

[Fred W. Hargis Jr]

Be sure to let us know how that works out (mixing the DE with the danish oil).

[RustyFN]

2 hours ago, Bob Hodge said:

I must say that this has upped my finishing game a big notch. Nicer finish, and a whole lot faster. What's not to like?

 

Some here and some videos talk about using this stuff on raw wood before putting an oil based finish over that. 

That makes sense as the oil based finish would not be affected by the underlying wax or mineral oil.

Still, it would leave that soft wax and uncured mineral oil under the finish. One would be taking a big risk to use it before putting lacquor on top. 

 

I'm thinking of mixing some of the diatomaceous earth with some danish oil that will indeed dry. I use danish oil now with 600 or up to 1000 grit sandpaper to wet sand and fill pores.

 

Anybody see a problem with that?  I've not seen any reference to it in what I have seen or read.

 

Who would think that we get into this much chemistry with woodworking?

Are you using homemade or Yorkshire grit?

[Bob Hodge]

Rusty, I made up my own stuff after watching several videos. They all had the same proportions, so I gave it a try.

I think I have a lifetime supply of diatomaceous earth.  I could get something like four pounds in a bag at a home store for $9 or ten ounces

in a zippy squeeze bottle for $8.

[RustyFN]

At what point in your turning do you use it? In some videos I have seen it looks like after sanding and before friction polish.

[Bob Hodge]

Rusty, this has been my point of interest - when to use the abrasive paste.

I have tried it to put a nice sheen on bowls finished with Waterlox and poly. Very nice.

 

Videos I have seen show people using it on raw wood to wet sand the wood.  I

 have yet to try it as I have a concern about putting a drying finish over the remnants

of the abrasive paste that contains non -drying or slow drying mineral oil and wax.

This is the basis of my hope to try mixing the diatomaceous earth with danish oil that

will actually dry before I put on poly or something else. 

 

A bit more risky, seems to me, is to put lacquer over it. I think before I would sand with

this paste and put lacquer on it, I would sand without it, put the lacquer on, and then

use the paste to rub out the finish.  

 

What I find interesting is the wide range of thought about how much to sand raw wood before

putting on a finish.  I see some that sand to 1000 grit or more before putting on a finish, yet

I have a book that says not to sand to more than 320 else the finish (poly usually) will not

stick.

 

Others tell me they stop at 180, put on the finish, then spend time finishing the finish.