Varithane (HD) has a new poly, water based, marked "3X".  Supposedly three times the dried thickness.  I'm trying it out, and it seems OK, although I've thinned it with about 10% water (it's chilly here, need flow).  It's thick, white, creamy, sticky....   I think I'll stop at that.

I've not tried it yet.   It  claims that it's so you only need to apply one coat, though it does not give the recommended wet-mil thickness nor dry-mil result. Wet-mil the thickness of the wet coat when applied, in 0.001" increments, and dry-mil is the resulting dry thickness from that.  So a finish good technical data sheet might say 3 wet-mil and .5 dry mil.  As an example that you all have probably seen, if you get oil-based poly too thick, e.g, a drip, the top surface cures and the lower level cannot get enough oxygen to react and cure for a long, long time and stays gummy.  It's also why a bad oil-based poly job looks "plasticky" if applied too much wet-mil.

 

Usually the first coat of a w/b finish will raise the grain that you then sand down to smooth.  Wonder how it addresses that problem?

 

My first impression is that it's designed for people who just want to "slap on some poly" and the less work the better.  Sort of like all-in-one stains and finishes like Polyshades that generally look like vomit unless you put on very thin coats, that means you put on more coats that means you haven't really saved any time.

Oh, and you might be careful, they want ambient temperature to be above 55 degrees for proper cure (and <90F)

Edited January 11, 20197 yr by kmealy

The 55--90 is expected, and has never been a problem (it helps to "soak" the materials in a conditioned space first) (and we rarely see really cold unless us "zonas" go to crazy places like Show Low!).  I raise the grain and sand before finishing anyway; the poly doesn't seem to "raise new".  I'm going to mic a test piece, coat both sides, mic again to see if I can detect a thickness.  Thus far, the coating seems to dry completely.  At worst, it may be usable as a "concentrate" and simply dilute to taste.  Well, use.  Strangely, where I bought it, the "3X" was selling a little cheaper than the standard (1X) stuff.  We'll see.

On 1/11/2019 at 9:48 AM, kmealy said:

It's also why a bad oil-based poly job looks "plasticky" if applied too much wet-mil.

I have had people tell me that because it did not look like this it needed more coats.  

Well let's see, I dilute my poly 1:1, so if I get a quart of the 3X and dilute it with 3 water that will = 1X. Then I can dilute that 1:1 and have the same as I have now, but 4 times as much. So I get a gallon for the price of a quart.

Can't beat a deal like that.

Herb

something will have to go wrong here..

 

3x @ 1:3 = 4qt

4qt @ 1:1 = 8qt...

8qt = 1½ gallons...

Edited January 14, 20197 yr by Stick486

5 hours ago, Dadio said:

Well let's see, I dilute my poly 1:1, so if I get a quart of the 3X and dilute it with 3 water that will = 1X. Then I can dilute that 1:1 and have the same as I have now, but 4 times as much. So I get a gallon for the price of a quart.

Can't beat a deal like that.

Herb

Not even at HF? I'm betting Pete didn't get a free flashlight.

Update:  I've been using the 3X for several days (coating small pieces) and it works well, although brushed apps seem to have more bubbles than, uh, 1X.  Wipe on works super well, no flaws.  I don't know if the 3X is really a "one and done" but it may be a "two and through".  1X always seemed to benefit from "three and glee" or "four and door".

3 hours ago, PeteM said:

Update:  I've been using the 3X for several days (coating small pieces) and it works well, although brushed apps seem to have more bubbles than, uh, 1X.  Wipe on works super well, no flaws.  I don't know if the 3X is really a "one and done" but it may be a "two and through".  1X always seemed to benefit from "three and glee" or "four and door".

Three and glee is six and mix for me.

Herb

17 hours ago, Dadio said:

Well let's see, I dilute my poly 1:1, so if I get a quart of the 3X and dilute it with 3 water that will = 1X. Then I can dilute that 1:1 and have the same as I have now, but 4 times as much. So I get a gallon for the price of a quart.

Can't beat a deal like that.

Herb

If you dilute 1 qt of 3x with 3 quarts of water -> 4 quarts (1 gal)

then if you dilute that 1:1 (one gal mix with one gallon water) -> 8 qts (2 gal).

 

but....   W/B finishes are a carefully controlled blend of a number of different ingredients (resins, surfactants, anti-foam agents, flatteners, glycol ethers, and water).   Just dumping in a bunch of water can upset this balance and mess up your finish. It may work but it way not. 

 

Unlike oil-based where you can mix in as much or as little thinner (or oil) as you want.

Hi Keith you old parade rainer you...

1 hour ago, kmealy said:

If you dilute 1 qt of 3x with 3 quarts of water -> 4 quarts (1 gal)

then if you dilute that 1:1 (one gal mix with one gallon water) -> 8 qts (2 gal).

 

but....   W/B finishes are a carefully controlled blend of a number of different ingredients (resins, surfactants, anti-foam agents, flatteners, glycol ethers, and water).   Just dumping in a bunch of water can upset this balance and mess up your finish. It may work but it way not. 

 

Unlike oil-based where you can mix in as much or as little thinner (or oil) as you want.

You are probably right on that Keith. It seems to work OK on the 1X poly, I have been using it that way for quite some time now. The reason I like it is that(brush on) I don't get any runs and the tiny bubbles that form now and then seem to disappear fast. Also it drys fast and I can easily get 4 coats /day which= 2 coats of undiluted. I also noticed less runs because it dries so fast. after 1st coat I sand with 320g and then 400 between coats and that gives a nice smooth soft feeling finish.

Herb

 

 

Edited January 15, 20197 yr by Dadio