So if you've been following my thread on the Cremation Box i just finished and gave to the recipient today, that's good, you are up to speed.

 

I had a friend in need, she had already been turned down by two others to make something similar, so she reached out to me.  and i'm glad I was able to help her family out.

 

I also posted about this elsewhere, and a day or so ago, someone I know asked if I had any scraps leftover, and if I could make a cutting board for him.  his budget was about $100.

 

well.....no, my scraps were fairly minimal, by design, and mahogany is not a good choice for a cutting board anyway.  and i don't stock a lot of lumber, so i'd have to go buy some to make a proper cutting board of maple or walnut.

 

my lumber place is a 100 mile round trip for me.  that's about $20 worth of gas.  maple is about $8-10/BF, so a 12x12x1.5 finished board will require about 3 BF of raw lumber to start.  so that's another $30.

 

it will take me 3 days to make and finish.

 

i'll go thru about 10-15 sanding disks, at about 40 cents each, that's another $6.

 

the mineral oil/beeswax finish will use up about 1/3 of a bottle, so that's about $3.

 

and shipping such a thing via UPS will run $20-25.

 

so getting it made and to him would put me out of pocket = 20+30+6+3+25= $84.  and i'll have 3 days of time into it.  so 100-84=16 profit.  16/3= about $5/day for my labor.

 

so, i had to tell him, as nicely as possible, that this wasn't going to work.

 

here is the difference:

 

she had a need, as funerals don't wait for the box maker to get his job done.

 

but he had a want, and a want that made no sense for me to fill.  he could go on Amazon and get something similar or larger for about the same amount of money.  they are set up to make 100s of cutting boards in a factory everyday.  they have large machines to move this along and warehouses full of lumber they buy by the train load.  way cheaper than i can get it.

 

I'm called to love my neighbor and meet his needs, i'm not called to fulfill every want or desire of anyone who crosses my path.

 

Edited July 5, 20188 yr by DAB

And I noticed the last time we were in Bed Bath And Beyond their large sized cutting boards was 39.00, HL and Michaels are cheaper than that but smaller. Might be the reason I have never made a cutting board...

just as bad are the ones that offer, they think generously, to pay for materials.

 

so....you value my time and talents at zero?  

 

as i posted before, showing off the coffee table I made out of quarter sawn white oak, which had about $400 of lumber in it, if you came knocking with money in hand, i'd start talking to you about making another one for you at about $4k.

 

how much do you earn in 2 weeks?

I had replied to a similar thread a while ago, that I adopted two phrases:  1) my wife is the only customer I have now; and 2) when asked 'how much would it cost for you to build me ???', I now answer 'more than you want to spend.'  I got tired of figuring out material and time costs only to get the reply "oh, I didn't know it would be that much".  And I've been a happy woodworker ever since.  (not that I wasn't a happy woodworker before, now I have a quick retort for people who are ignorant to material cost, and do not have an appreciation of handmade 'custom' pieces.)

It's not that they're cruel.  They're just thoughtless.  Literally.  No  thinking at all.

 

And about woodworking, too.

And educating them always makes me/us look like greedy bumpkins. “It’s just Woodworking”. You’re right. Go do it yourself if you don’t want me to do it. 

1 hour ago, DAB said:

And educating them always makes me/us look like greedy bumpkins. “It’s just Woodworking”. You’re right. Go do it yourself if you don’t want me to do it. 

I don't care.  Do you?

 

Where have I seen that lately?  But ever since I stopped worrying what others think, my blood pressure has improved.  120/62 at last doc visit.  Alfred E Newman was right?

the attitude seems to be "well, you enjoy woodworking, you have a nice shop full of good tools, and it's just some lumber, so why wouldn't you enjoy spending some time in your shop making something special just for me?"

 

well.....i do enjoy spending time in my shop making things.  but i make things both for myself and my family, and for those in need.  but you aren't in need, you are just greedy.  wanting something for nothing.  you didn't offer to pay a fair price.  you didn't offer to help out.  you didn't offer to clean up the shop.  you didn't offer to do anything in return.  you just want to take based on some emotional/guilt appeal.  and if you say "it's easy, anyone can do it", then stop talking and go do it, and you'll have a result exactly the way YOU want it, and not the way someone else did it.

I am also a happy woodworker. What I do now is to build projects that are interesting and which create value when donated to various charities, to valued family members and good and dear friends. I do not sell anything and therefore get no complaints or sideway glances questioning perceived value or lack thereof. One of the significant rewards for said activity are many examples of heartfelt thankyous------also great inner satisfaction as I utilize the fine tools I have acquired over the last 55+ years-----works for me.

4 minutes ago, Marv Rall said:

I am also a happy woodworker. What I do now is to build projects that are interesting and which create value when donated to various charities, to valued family members and good and dear friends. I do not sell anything and therefore get no complaints or sideway glances questioning perceived value or lack thereof. One of the significant rewards for said activity are many examples of heartfelt thankyous------also great inner satisfaction as I utilize the fine tools I have acquired over the last 55+ years-----works for me.

that works.

 

now, financially, i could easily afford to give the guy a nice cutting board.  i just gave away the cremation box, and had about $100 into it, plus about 10 hours of time over 10 days.

 

but it's the attitude that turns me off.

 

and i've given away a lot of work over time.  really nice stuff.

 

but i too have money consuming hobbies, and I too like to be rewarded for my efforts if it's not a gift from the heart.

3 hours ago, DAB said:

"it's easy, anyone can do it"

Ugh!!!  This phrase along with "it doesn't look like it would be hard to do" go up my rear sideways. My friend's wife wanted a gate to hide her trash cans.  She sent me a photo. No dimensions, no material choices, not even measurements of the area it was going into.  I was traveling about 1000 miles one way for a visit (limited tools in my wife's car) {and no, this was not the sole reason for the trip.}.  I get there, we start discussing the project and she uttered the above phrase.  To which I answered "then do it yourself". I think by my reaction, she realized she may have said the wrong thing .  Her husband (my best and oldest friend) and I got into the build.  2 post holes, concrete, fence framing and pickets, this is what we ended up with. As the project progressed into the 2nd day,there were design changes made to accommodate the space, fence height and height differences. I'm still not sure if she fully realized the complexity of what she wanted.  We didn't do the antiquing wavy texture thing because I refuse to sand or grind PT lumber. In the end, they were happy with it, which is all that matters, but I don't consider it to be one of my best projects. 

 

It was a fun project, and I didn't mind doing it (my friend is not that handy and we have fun the whole time), but boy did she touch a nerve.

 

 

we watch these 'home improvement' shows now and then.  recurring theme:  "oh, i wanted hardwood floors, not carpeting over plywood", and the idiot, lazy, realtor replies, "oh, that's an easy change"

 

really?  cool, i've never done it.  how about i get the materials and the beer, and i'll sit over there in the corner and watch you easily install hardwood flooring.  if you do it well, then i'll pay you for the upstairs.

 

 

If they still need the cutting board send them to me. 60.00+25.00 shipping and still under their budget.

 

 

he wanted one from ME.  i pointed him to several websites that only do cutting boards.  way cheaper than i can manage.

First and most importantly, a custom job has gotta be fun. Second, if the proposed customer has to ask how soon it'll be done, the conversation is over. finally, if he asks how much, I'm gonna be too expensive. 

8 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

First and most importantly, a custom job has gotta be fun. Second, if the proposed customer has to ask how soon it'll be done, the conversation is over. finally, if he asks how much, I'm gonna be too expensive. 

Yup. 

 

If they cringe when told the cost, it’s time to end that project. 

I have one of John's cutting boards and it's a beauty

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by It Was Al B

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.  Basically, I think we could lighten up a little.  I don't necessarily think everyone who asks When? and How Much? is a greedy idiot.  They just don't understand, or maybe they do understand their own financial limitations, and need to know if they can afford the item.  Maybe they need that coffee table or hutch by a certain time for a family gathering, and need to know if you can reasonably meet that, or if they should look for another source.  Of course, there are the ones out there that are looking to manipulate you into saving them some money, and those are the ones that deserve the cold shoulder.  But I don't think that describes everyone.  Members of this website pride themselves on being inclusive and non-judgmental, but that is beginning to sound like it only applies to members of TPW.  Maybe this feeling of elitism is misplaced?  All that being said, I admit that my level of woodworking is not close to what some of you do, so I haven't experienced the frustrating expectations from the public that you have.  Just my thoughts on the issue. 

2 hours ago, PostalTom said:

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.  Basically, I think we could lighten up a little.  I don't necessarily think everyone who asks When? and How Much? is a greedy idiot.  They just don't understand, or maybe they do understand their own financial limitations, and need to know if they can afford the item.

I tend to agree. In my days as a welder I often had friends and others ask me to weld items for them. Most had no idea about the costs for equipment and materials and figured their job was something I could and would do for little or nothing. Some jobs required hours of work, just in the preparation, before any welding could be done. Since I wasn't in business for myself, I decided I wouldn't keep any welding equipment when I retired. Now, if I need any welding done, I go the the local welding/fabrication shop and pay. I know the costs and offer no arguments about the price. After getting into woodworking as a hobby, I was actually quite surprised at the costs for hardwoods and the amount of labor involved in the building some items. Not to mention the cost of the tools needed to do the work. I think that in most cases, people are just ignorant of the labor and expense required for even a small project. They just know you can do it as it should be done. There are a few, who will take advantage of you if they can.

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by It Was Al B

I have told some that they could come over and I could supervise them while the built what they wanted.  No one has ever been willing to spend the estimated time it would take.