TGIF : Thank Goodness I’m Finishing

 

Welcome to the inaugural issue of posts on finishing.  Hoping to improve the 20:1 ratio of general to finishing posts here and share some good information.

 

Why do people fear and avoid finishing?  I think it’s because we don’t understand it.  And after we’ve spent a good deal of time building a project, we just want to get it done.Three months building a project and we want to finish it in two days.

 

What makes it so hard to understand?

1.    It’s chemistry, not physics.  You can tell if your wood is 6 inches wide, mortise and tenon joint is tight, a lump in your curve, or if there are gaps in your dovetails.  It’s hard to tell what chemical reaction is happening when you apply a finish come back the next day and it's dry. Why some things are soluble in others or not.  Why does alcohol thin shellac but later alcohol dissolves it. but mineral spirits thins varnish but not dissolve it?

2.    The manufacturers, videos, and written information is either misleading, missing, wrong, or a persistent myth. Why can you buy five different products called “tung oil” yet none of them apply or behave the same?   Because they are all different products.   How can polyurethane and water-based polyurethane be and look so different?  Yet, polyurethane and alkyd varnish be so similar?  Why does spar urethane that’s supposed to be an outdoor finish perform so poorly?  Why is a product called “Wood Finish” not a finish, but a stain, and why might it be a dye, a pigment, or even both, depending on color.  What’s the difference between Antique Oil, Danish Oil, Velvet Oil, ValOil and Tung oil Finish. Why are the “wood conditioner” instructions entirely contrary to its effective use?  So confusing.

And we have not even gotten into effective coloring and color matching.

Time involvement

Some of my training was from people who worked in high-end furniture manufacturers’ finish rooms.  Their comment was that as much labor went into finishing as construction.  And this was in the 1970-2000 period.   Probably even more so now with CNC equipment where the main task is having someone in the office download a design and people on the floor just moving parts from one machine to another.

 

When others look a piece you've made, often the first thing that catches their eye is the finish.  A smooth, finish that highlights the wood, has even color and great "hand" (touch factor).  They don't really  know or care that that chair you made gave your a challenge with angled mortise and tenons.  The finish is worth getting it right.

The path to enlightenment

I’ll admit 30 years ago, I was there.  Confused, frustrated, and bewildered, I tried different things until I found one that worked for me – then used it on everything.  Bob Flexner’s book, “Understanding Wood Finishing” in 1994 was the epiphany that I needed.  I am a huge fan of his, have read a lot of his stuff, taken a class from him, and occasionally e-mail each other.  If you are familiar with his work, you’ll probably see his mentorship in my work.  Bob ran a restoration shop and was equally confused and frustrated with finishing in the 1980s until he did a lot of research talked to finish chemists and became a myth-buster.  When I met him a few years ago, he was still frustrated that after 20+ years, there was still a lot of confusion with products and usage, mostly promulgated by writers and manufacturers.  Bob has what he calls the “Half-Right Rule.”   Half what you read or hear about finishing is right.   You just don’t know which half.

 

So there we have it.  Let’s go on a journey.  I guy I used to work with in the software industry used to say, “Nobody is born knowing this stuff – we have to learn it somewhere along the line.”

 

Where are you?

So, what’s your biggest fear / frustration in finishing?  Are you a one-trick pony? What's the one finish you use for everything?  Once you have some basic understanding, you may come to love finishing like I do.   Well, maybe not the sanding part, but the results.

 

Edited May 2, 20179 yr by kmealy

Thanks for taking on this Forum, Keith! I know I have a lot to learn.

 

MY love hate relationship with finishing begins with sanding and lasts until the project leaves the shop. I think my greatest downfall is lack of patience.

I'm not exactly a one trick pony, and still prefer some of the old school stuff (read: solvent based finishes). But we are moving into a water borne finish world and I'm trying to adapt. The thing is that finish chemistry is seemingly moving quickly, and with the manufacturers trying to bamboozle us with the names they use it's even harder now to select a quality finish that's suited to the task at hand. It's also harder to figure some of this stuff out with the demise of the MSDS sheets, which at least offered a few clues. For example, in the past I always avoided urethane resin finishes (for my own reasons), but since Norm tuned "poly" into a magic finish the manufacturer's want to label their water borne acrylics with that magic word. Then there's the "modified oil" waterborne. I'm fairly certain that's a step up from normal acrylic waterborne finishes in durability, but trying to find what it is has been frustrating (I've seen GF Enduro Var referred to as a "modified oil" finish, and it's one I really like). I've been in touch with Flexner, who indicated the modified oil finishes aren't new, but the use is becoming more widespread, he did not tell me what exactly a modified oil finish is. Anyway, back to the question: if I had a go to finish it would be an alkyd resin varnish, preferably made with soya oil. I still have 3 unopened quarts in my stash; good thing since it's almost impossible to find anymore.

1 hour ago, lew said:

Thanks for taking on this Forum, Keith! I know I have a lot to learn.

 

MY love hate relationship with finishing begins with sanding and lasts until the project leaves the shop. I think my greatest downfall is lack of patience.

 

I could not have said it better.

 

I also get really confused with all of the different names for the same type of finish that manufactures use. In junior high and HS shop, we used watco Danish oil and called it good. Some of my first projects when I started back up in woodworking about 20 years ago, I did the same. Since then, I have tried poly's, stain with topcoats, shellac, etc. I am still learning and have a LONG way to go to be totally confident in what I want to use for a particular project. 

I guess I am pretty much a one trick pony. My go to is just Watco and McCloskys Man O War. Variably mixed for a wipe on finish. 

I've never had to match any existing finish.

1 hour ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

 if I had a go to finish it would be an alkyd resin varnish, preferably made with soya oil. I still have 3 unopened quarts in my stash; good thing since it's almost impossible to find anymore.

Pratt & Lambert #38?  I think I can still get it at a local independent paint store.  It's just off I-75 before you get into KY, if you are ever traveling south.

 

My local Do-it-Best hardware store (used to) carry Cabot 8000 series.  I was in there a few years ago and the asst. manager told me that it had been reformulated for lower VOC.   She could sell what she had on the shelves, but any new orders would be low-VOC.   She was told to never mix the two together.  I checked a few times after that and saw none.  The big boxes don't seem to want to carry oil-based anything any more.  The manufacturers don't want to have three different formulations, either, one for California, one low VOC states, and one for the others.

My stash is actually 1-P&L 38, 1-Cabot 8000, and 1-McCloskey's Heirloom. I had bought a case of the Cabot (4 quarts) when Do-it-Best had it online and shipped to the nearest store. But Valspar must have thought it not worthy, it was discontinued soon after the merger (takeover, whatever) between them and Cabot. I know (or think) P&L 38 is still made, but there's not a can with 75 miles of me...I do hear that some places in Cincy have it and if I ever get down that way I'll try to search them out.

I'm about the same as Fred, but my stash is less than a Qt of P&L 38  and maybe 2 Qts of Cabot 8000. Also played with water based urethanes including Minwax and Varathane  brands.

 Oil based finishes are impossible to find locally. For paints, I've found BEHR products seem to work well on interior walls and outside paints. Never used them on a woodworking project.

Edited May 2, 20179 yr by It Was Al B

I still consider myself a complete novice in finish work.  For years I think my fear of screwing up a nice piece of furniture with the wrong/inappropriate finish actually kept me from doing any inside type of projects (not counting painted stuff like shelves/doors and such).  That fear, plus almost every type of refinishing I tried I was unhappy with the results.   A few years ago I began doing some furniture pieces and learning.  My last few pieces I used a water based dye and thinned shellac.

Cal

Thanks Keith, great opener. 

 

I also like P&L #38 and have a couple of quarts. I have become to really like General Finishes Enduro Var for a lot of what I do. I like to spray it on and it sprays very well. It is water based so cleanup is easy. I'm always open to learning new, as well as tries and true Finishes. I look forward to following along with you. 

I am glad you are here, Kieth, I have seen pictures of your work and they are top shelf.

 

I am a Shellac guy, I love the mellow warm tone shellac gives wood, I have tried water base polyurethanes and some times it makes the piece look cold. But I like the way they dry fast and no VOC's

Herb

21 hours ago, Dadio said:

I am glad you are here, Kieth, I have seen pictures of your work and they are top shelf.

 

I am a Shellac guy, I love the mellow warm tone shellac gives wood, I have tried water base polyurethanes and some times it makes the piece look cold. But I like the way they dry fast and no VOC's

Herb

I will often apply a coat or two of shellac then put on the w/b finish.   It adds warmth and chatoyance   I say chatoyance makes the wood dance -- shimmer as you move viewing angle and depth of wood.   W/b alone, particularly if the mfr has not added anything to amber it, often appears cool and sometimes even a bit blue, particularly if the wood is natural and not stained.

 

Chatoyancy (/ʃəˈtɔɪ.ənsi/ shə-TOY-ən-see), or chatoyance or cat's eye effect, is an optical effect. Coined from the French "œil de chat", meaning "cat's eye",

 

Chatoyancy in wood occurs in various species – particularly hardwoods, and particularly where stresses from the weight of the growing tree result in denser patches, or where stresses cause burl or bird’s eye. This ‘figure’, which has a striking three-dimensional appearance, is highly prized by woodworkers and their clients alike, and is featured regularly in furniture, musical instruments, and other decorative wood products. Figuring takes on a variety of forms and is referred to as flame, ribbon, tiger stripe, quilting, among other names.

 

This effect is sometimes called wet look, since wetting wood with water often displays the chatoyancy, albeit only until the wood dries. Certain finishes cause the chatoyancy (also referred to as wood iridescence, moire, vibrancy, shimmer or glow) to become more pronounced. Oil finishes, epoxy, and shellac can strongly bring out the wet look effect.  -  excerpted from Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatoyancy

 

On 5/4/2017 at 6:38 PM, kmealy said:

I will often apply a coat or two of shellac then put on the w/b finish.   It adds warmth and chatoyance   I say chatoyance makes the wood dance -- shimmer as you move viewing angle and depth of wood.   W/b alone, particularly if the mfr has not added anything to amber it, often appears cool and sometimes even a bit blue, particularly if the wood is natural and not stained.

 

Chatoyancy (/ʃəˈtɔɪ.ənsi/ shə-TOY-ən-see), or chatoyance or cat's eye effect, is an optical effect. Coined from the French "œil de chat", meaning "cat's eye",

 

Chatoyancy in wood occurs in various species – particularly hardwoods, and particularly where stresses from the weight of the growing tree result in denser patches, or where stresses cause burl or bird’s eye. This ‘figure’, which has a striking three-dimensional appearance, is highly prized by woodworkers and their clients alike, and is featured regularly in furniture, musical instruments, and other decorative wood products. Figuring takes on a variety of forms and is referred to as flame, ribbon, tiger stripe, quilting, among other names.

 

This effect is sometimes called wet look, since wetting wood with water often displays the chatoyancy, albeit only until the wood dries. Certain finishes cause the chatoyancy (also referred to as wood iridescence, moire, vibrancy, shimmer or glow) to become more pronounced. Oil finishes, epoxy, and shellac can strongly bring out the wet look effect.  -  excerpted from Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatoyancy

 

 

That's a great explanation Keith. I knew I liked the look, but didn't really know what it was called. 

 

Here is a Bubinga top I finished using Shellac and then a w/b finish on top.