I have a very basic question.

What makes a machine old? Amongst the old machinery crowd, is there a cut off date? Is there a time period that is the cutoff time frame? I am doing a research project on this, and I would like to have a solid explanation if possible regarding this.

If I were to create two categories, one being

Old Woodworking Machinery

the other

Modern Woodworking Machinery

 

What would be the years to determine this?

 

I need the categories to look like the ones below, x = years such as (1902-1959)

 

Old Woodworking Machinery (xxxx-xxxx)

 

Modern Woodworking Machinery (xxxx-xxxx)

 

Or should the categories look like this?

 

Old Woodworking Machinery (Pre-xxxx)

 

Modern Woodworking Machinery (Post-xxxx)

 

Thank you for any help.

 

 

I'm thinking the date you apply to "old" machines could be quite arbitrary. I don't know of a standard that would apply to your question.

In this modern age, an old woodworking machine might be less than 10 years old.

 

It's a decent enough question, however I don't have an answer.

I'm thinking the date you apply to "old" machines could be quite arbitrary. I don't know of a standard that would apply to your question.

In this modern age, an old woodworking machine might be less than 10 years old.

 

It's a decent enough question, however I don't have an answer.

That thought came to mind Boomer, it can be a very ambiguous answer couldn't it? Because 10 years from now, old may be 1982. Or it may get very complicated, it could depend on the machine, the production run of that particular machine etc. There could be waaaay to many variables to determine this.

Thanks Boomer

Just my though, but I would think the old machinery would be pre mid 1970's and modern would be post mid 1970's.

 

It just seems to me that tools made through the early 70's were still quality built and built to really last and not sure this matters in the category, but American made.

 

Somewhere in that time companies started to do more out of the country and more imports products. Not all but some. Maybe you look at the first 100 years and then from that point on. 

 

I don't know they more I type I get myself confused.

Sure John, make my head hurt.

Most sites require that the machine be at least 25 years old, or no longer produced.

In my case most of my machines are as old, or older than me. (That's getting pretty old)

 

And yes John, I'm still around.  

Just my though, but I would think the old machinery would be pre mid 1970's and modern would be post mid 1970's.

 

It just seems to me that tools made through the early 70's were still quality built and built to really last and not sure this matters in the category, but American made.

 

Somewhere in that time companies started to do more out of the country and more imports products. Not all but some. Maybe you look at the first 100 years and then from that point on. 

 

I don't know they more I type I get myself confused.

Good thoughts John, sounds rational and reasonable. My head is starting to hurt too now. But only from thinking about all the old machinery out there and how they can all be categorized! Pre 70's and Post 70's is a good starting point for discussion, thanks for that.

Sure John, make my head hurt.

Most sites require that the machine be at least 25 years old, or no longer produced.

In my case most of my machines are as old, or older than me. (That's getting pretty old)

 

And yes John, I'm still around.  

Thanks for the info Larry. I am in dire need of some detailed categories for old machinery. If anyone has any inputs on this I'd sure appreciate it!

John,

Detailed categories can get to be tough.

There are so many variables such as.

Hand/Treadle powered machines. (Mid 1800's early 1900's)

Flat belt/Lineshaft driven machines. ( Mid 1800's through 1930's) Usually  larger Industrial type machinery.

V belt driven machines 1920's & up still some uses.

Direct drive machines some date back to 1920's.

 

I was born 100 years late.

Categorizing by cutoff dates is a moving target. 

More difficult for the compiler but far more accurate, descriptive and unchanging would be a method such as Larry suggests. 

When you can't get parts for it anymore

 

Computers and cell phones - 1 year  

John,

Detailed categories can get to be tough.

There are so many variables such as.

Hand/Treadle powered machines. (Mid 1800's early 1900's)

Flat belt/Lineshaft driven machines. ( Mid 1800's through 1930's) Usually  larger Industrial type machinery.

V belt driven machines 1920's & up still some uses.

Direct drive machines some date back to 1920's.

 

I was born 100 years late.

That's a lot to chew on Larry. Thanks.

I wonder if we could take a different approach by tying it in with human history, or world history and how the dynamics of inventions changed over time. Such as, pre industrial revolution machinery, post industrial revolution machinery.

May be I should drop the "Old Woodworking Machinery" and "New Woodworking Machinery" all together, and tie it in a more worldly manner, not so narrowed.

Then once those two categories start filling up for pre and post industrial, we could start entering in categories as needed. I am sure you guys may have figured out the reason for my question by now, a wiki is in the works.

 

So it could look like this:

 

Category:Woodworking Machinery

SubCategory:Pre-Industrial Revolution and SubCategory:Post-Industrial Revolution

 

The Pre-Industrial Revolution would cover the foot or hand tredel operations, and the Post-Industrial Revolution would cover the steam and water powered operations.

 

Then there would be a need for electric powered machinery as it came to being as steam and water powered machines died out.

 

Just musing here fellas, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I was heading where you were John a bit earlier. 

 

Maybe pre electric, Steam and Belt, Electric, and then used the 70's as a "Later Machines". My Delta Unisaw is a 87 model and seems kinda old, but then I look at the Barnes Foot powered Mortiser I have and the Hand powered Drill press so I guess you have to have some type of divide. 

 

You would put the SawStop type machines, CNC and computer control machines in a Post 2000 category. 

John,

Then you also have the machines that can be both Wood & Metal Working machines. (Drill Presses, Lathes, etc.)

I've seen posts about lathes dating from the 1500's.

A lot of the older flat belt drive machines were also upgraded by both the manufactures and the owners to run on electric motors once they came into use.

Delta had an option in the 1930's to use a gasoline engine to run the machines for those that didn't have electricity.

Thanks John and Larry.

I like the way it's opening up in this conversation, yep I think you guys are on the right track. I would prefer it more in a historical way then a narrow view.

And then I have that 1947/8 Tilt top Table saw and jointer that run on the same motor and belt. I also have the wooden top table saw, so I don't think we can get every category, but general and then point out some times when major changes took place, like steam, electric, computer controlled and so forth.

And then I have that 1947/8 Tilt top Table saw and jointer that run on the same motor and belt. I also have the wooden top table saw, so I don't think we can get every category, but general and then point out some times when major changes took place, like steam, electric, computer controlled and so forth.

I completely agree, if we did capture every category, I think it would be a mess to sort through for the viewer.

The software can do the heavy work, folks can do a search for what they want and let the search engine do the rest.

When you can't get parts for it anymore

 

Computers and cell phones - 1 year  

Fred,

I'm still using 7-8 year old computer hardware.

What's a cell phone?

 

John,

It isn't old unless it's as old or older than I am.

when  i get a new machine  the one im replacing becomes my old machine

Using the "industrial revolution'" as a break point could be somewhat problematical.  The Parks Service History of Saugus Ironworks says it began the industrial revolution in America and that was mid 1600s.  It did have a "power tool" - a water powered forging hammer to work the billets cast in the ironworks.  Then you have Lowell Massachusetts which led to the industrialization of the Textile Industry.  Neither of these of course apply to woodworking but they sort of do apply with respect to a time frame.  And then there is the second industrial revolution when powered transportion took over (railroads and steamships).   I had a tredle powered wood lathe in the steam powered machine shop at Greenfield Village which I used to turn core patterns for the foundry and it was C 1900.

old machinery to me is from when manufacturers actually designed machines to do the job well rather than add flashy stuff that looks good at home depot.  that ideal seemed to disappear in the mid 70's

my old machinery dates from around 1915 up to early sixties, most of it from just after ww2(so late forties, early 50's)

many people ask me about finding parts, but rarely have I ever needed any except bearings, belts and electrical stuff and they are all common items available at any decent hardware store or industrial supplier.  its much easier to find a new v belt for my 70 yr old lathe than it is for many new machines with their wide flat belts.  try to find a drivebelt for a modern dewalt planer on a Saturday afternoon, I can get one for my old parks at the nearest automotive store