May I pick your brains please?

 

I see many of you are selling your work and I could use your knowledge/experience. Researching online I keep running into those 16k plans and "woodworking profits." I've been around the block and recognize them for what they are and I'm not interested.

 

My business experience has mostly been with services. Real Estate, Truck and Equipment Repair,  Website Creation, Telephone and Data Services, etc... This will be my first experience in creating products to sell. I have experience in sales, marketing and inventory control.

 

I'm familiar with Etsy, Ebay, Amazon and  Personalization Mall. I'll offer drop shipping through contacts found through Worldwide Brands. I will create my own website and will attend the few Craft Shows in Anchorage and sell at the Saturday Market in the summer months. I will focus on quality over quantity. Because of physical limitations my products must fist in 2' cube and preferably less than 15 lbs. I've created products specifically for Homebrewers, Craft Breweries and Beer lovers. I'll also be adding some more traditional wood craft products like cutting boards, serving trays, knives and knife blocks, children's toys etc.

 

I'm setting up my shop from scratch. I'll need mostly benchtop power tools. What tools/brands would you recommend. I have a Jet Cabinet Table Saw and a Chop Saw already. I have hand held power tools as well. Circular Saw, orbital sander, jig saw, drill.

 

What advice do you wish you were given before starting your woodworking business? What have you learned that has led you to be successful? How do you price your products?

 

Like any business, I know it's not going to be easy. Success is not going to happen overnight. I'm not expecting to get rich. But, I'm willing to put in the time and the effort to improve my craft.

So there you go folks, what should this newbie know?

 

Thank you in advance for any and all comments. I appreciate it.

 

Bob

 

 

I really can't give advice on selling stuff, as Mimi gives most of it away. I've never learned the art of pricing, either. 

 

As for tools, I am finally learning that buying quality pays off. Dewalt and Mikata have worked well for me as well as Milwaukee. My stationary tools are almost all "Bridgewood"- similar to Grizzly tools. Not the most expensive but they have served me well.

 

Reading your list of equipment, I would first get a bandsaw then add a planer or drum sander- depending on how you purchase your wood. Also an oscillating spindle sander is a nice addition. A bench top drill press is really nice, too.

 

I don't do the craft show circuit, so I'm no help there either.

Thanks Lew. When I asked my local hardwoods supplier he told me "Most of the lumber I sell is S3S.  Lot's of  13/16" and 1-3/4" some 5/4 material at 1-1/16" ". I've been considering the Dewalt tools. I don't know if there is a Bridgwood dealer up here. Sometimes shipping is a real killer getting stuff to Alaska. I'll check it out though thanks.

 

Bob

Selling can be iffy Bob.  Ebay is OK but the fees are a killer.  Between ebay and Paypal you lose about 14% percent.  Etsy is more reasonable but the exposure isn't as good as ebay.  Direct sales from word of mouth is best but it does take time.  If you are close to a tourist area, that also is a good source and if you can, find an upper end shop to sell through.  Maybe John Moody will chime in here.  Here has a website and get alot of business there.  As your reputation grows so will your business.

 

As for tool, I think Lew steered you pretty straight.  Sometimes Craigslist has some killer deals so watch there. 

Howdy Bob, I need to do a quick hit and run here, but I'll back on later to give you my rant, errrrr, knowledge. But for now I just wanted to say great website you got there! http://homebrewbeerbox.com/

 I don't know if there is a Bridgwood dealer up here. Sometimes shipping is a real killer getting stuff to Alaska. I'll check it out though thanks.

 

Bob

Bob,

I should have mentioned that Bridgewood is no longer in business. Grizzly is the closest (and better quality). Contact them at http://www.grizzly.com/catalogs and they will send you a catalog that's to die for!!

first and I mean absolutely first  your business plan needs to identify  the market into which you  intend to be selling.

You have to know who your customers are going to be. You need to know their tastes, demands finicky, aspects and  you really, really, REALLY have to know about how they spend money and how much of it they spend on the sorts of things you  will be selling to them.

 

Then you have to identify how you will reach them.

 

I think  failing to do those three things are the heart and soul of why so many start ups fail.  They go at it with an "If you build it they will come" sort of mentality and they don't come.  Only baseball ghosts come and only to a little field in Iowa for a single evening on a midsummer's eve.

 

After you have those things nailed down you may even change you business model to accommodate the realistic picture of the marketplace you developed.

Wow, where to start.

 

I actually got into it by accident. I made a few small items and cutting boards to sell with a friend of mine that builds and sell cedar chest. We were doing a craft show held on the First Friday of each month in our downtown. I had gone there many times and walked around looking at the things vendors sell. I knew from experience they were not going to drop 400.00 on a cedar chest on a Friday night. So I made some items that were in the 20.00 to 40.00 range. I sold out that night so I decided to make a few more and try it again. I am now in my sixth or seventh year of selling at First Friday and I do several other craft shows during the year. I didn't have a business plan on paper, I just knew what the spending would be like for impulse items. I have also learned that you can't make everything, so pick what you can make and direct them to someone that makes the other products.

 

Also work on your display. The way you display your product helps to draw people to it. Use layers, don't have everything on the table at the same height. Use seasonal colors and other items to attract people to the booth.

 

 

 

 

I have a web site and it does very well for me. I get calls and orders regularly, but it took time for people to be able to find it in the search engines. I don't buy lumber at a lumber store, I get trees and take them to a sawyer and have them cut the way I want them and then sticker and stack it to air dry. Keeping the price of the lumber down is what allows you to make some money on your time. It cost to replace blades,, sandpaper, glue and tools. All of the tools I have in my shop have been paid for by the products I have produced in the shop. I didn't start with all of them but added them as I made and sold things. This past year has been one of our best but everything I make gets reinvested in the shop.

 

You will need lots of clamps, planer, jointer, sanders, (belt, ROS and drum), drill press, drills, lots of flat surface. I could go on and on, but you don't' have to get it all at once, just remember that.

 

Try to get into juried shows. If you get into to those then it shows your products was good enough to be chosen by a jury of people approving the vendors and that says a lot to potential customers.

 

After a bit you will learn how long it takes to really make items. I price my time at 25.00/hour, however you have to sell items at a price the market in your area will support. I have people from out of town tell me I sell the cutting boards too cheap, but people that have tried selling them higher didn't make it here. It is easier to start of a little low and raise the price than it is to price it too high and drop it. The thought is it wasn't worth what you were asking so you had to drop the price. Everyone knows that things go up due to additional cost.

 

Oh and get setup to take credit/debit cards.

 

Maybe that helps some. I'll be around if you have any questions.

And one other thing. Stay at eye level with your customers. If you are sitting in a low chair behind your booth, they feel like you are not interested in selling to them. I stand a lot, but I have two tall director chairs that when I sit in I am still at eye level and can easily stand up and not make the customer feel like it was a bother to me to wait on them.

Selling can be iffy Bob.  Ebay is OK but the fees are a killer.  Between ebay and Paypal you lose about 14% percent.  Etsy is more reasonable but the exposure isn't as good as ebay.  Direct sales from word of mouth is best but it does take time.  If you are close to a tourist area, that also is a good source and if you can, find an upper end shop to sell through.  Maybe John Moody will chime in here.  Here has a website and get alot of business there.  As your reputation grows so will your business.

 

As for tool, I think Lew steered you pretty straight.  Sometimes Craigslist has some killer deals so watch there. 

 

Good stuff Ron, Thanks!

I have the luxury of being able to survive while building the business. Operating capital will be a challenge however, so I'll need to develop some cash flow in order to buy supplies and wood stock.

 

Somewhere in my research I read to use Ebay and Etsy as test markets since listing fees are relatively cheap. Since I'm a bit of a geek I will setup a site with a complete shopping cart system which I hope will be my primary source of sales eventually.

 

Selling to tourists is a great idea. I'll have to think up some kind of unique Alaska product. I have a source for rough sawed Alaska Spruce to use.

 

Bob

Howdy Bob, I need to do a quick hit and run here, but I'll back on later to give you my rant, errrrr, knowledge. But for now I just wanted to say great website you got there! http://homebrewbeerbox.com/

 

Thanks John, I quit promoting that site because it really didn't show the quality of workmanship I want to produce. That's why I've turned my focus towards betting a proper shop.

 

Bob

Bob,

I should have mentioned that Bridgewood is no longer in business. Grizzly is the closest (and better quality). Contact them at http://www.grizzly.com/catalogs and they will send you a catalog that's to die for!!

 

Porn for woodworkers 

first and I mean absolutely first  your business plan needs to identify  the market into which you  intend to be selling.

You have to know who your customers are going to be. You need to know their tastes, demands finicky, aspects and  you really, really, REALLY have to know about how they spend money and how much of it they spend on the sorts of things you  will be selling to them.

 

Then you have to identify how you will reach them.

 

I think  failing to do those three things are the heart and soul of why so many start ups fail.  They go at it with an "If you build it they will come" sort of mentality and they don't come.  Only baseball ghosts come and only to a little field in Iowa for a single evening on a midsummer's eve.

 

After you have those things nailed down you may even change you business model to accommodate the realistic picture of the marketplace you developed.

 

I've been working very hard on my business plan. In fact that was how I found this place. I don't want to take anything for granted, make wrong assumptions or fool myself into believing some fantasy. My original idea was to build products for Craft Brewers, Homebrewers and Beer drinkers. What I found was that while those are growing markets if you don't have capital to get directly in front them it's a hard market to reach. So I decided to widen my product line to cast a little wider net.

 

Thanks for the thoughts, I think you are spot on.

Wow, where to start. <snip>

 

 

Maybe that helps some. I'll be around if you have any questions.

 

Huge help John, Thank you for taking the time and sharing.

 

I need to keep thinking things through, figuring out what is a must have and what can wait. That may be dictated to some extent what products I go with first and acknowledging that many hand tools just aren't possible for me. 

 

Bob

 

p.s. Staying eye level will be a challenge unless I can talk the VA into giving me a lift kit for my wheelchair

Huge help John, Thank you for taking the time and sharing.

 

I need to keep thinking things through, figuring out what is a must have and what can wait. That may be dictated to some extent what products I go with first and acknowledging that many hand tools just aren't possible for me. 

 

Bob

 

p.s. Staying eye level will be a challenge unless I can talk the VA into giving me a lift kit for my wheelchair

Bob, what are your limitations with hand tools?

Bob, what are your limitations with hand tools?

 

I have a weak grip, spasticity and pain with use due to neuropathy caused by spinal cord damage. I can do a little like use chisel to square up a joint or sand a little to fit. But I'm not able to use a hand plane or sanding block for any amount of time. Symptoms worsen with use, so even with benchtop tools I have to be careful, use all guards, use grippers and take frequent breaks. In general I have to limit myself to projects no larger than what fits in a two foot cube and weighs less than 15 lbs.

Huge help John, Thank you for taking the time and sharing.

 

I need to keep thinking things through, figuring out what is a must have and what can wait. That may be dictated to some extent what products I go with first and acknowledging that many hand tools just aren't possible for me. 

 

Bob

 

p.s. Staying eye level will be a challenge unless I can talk the VA into giving me a lift kit for my wheelchair

 

 

Well I believe in your case they would understand fully.

Well I believe in your case they would understand fully.

 

I was being facetious John.  I have been very fortunate in how VA has treated me. I just received my new chair in April, the primary consideration for the new chair was the ability to have year round access to the outdoors in ice, snow, mud and rough trails.  It would be very difficult to justify a lift kit for my chair based on a few shows a year use. There are also weight considerations since I rely on public transportation and the lifts have weight and size limitations I'm right up against the limits already.  Finally, I'm spending taxpayer's money whenever I receive any kind of support or benefits, so I'm very careful about not being greedy, abusive or disrespectful. There are so many Veterans that are in need of support and the well of money isn't bottomless.  I'm so thankful and grateful for all I have received and continue to receive, I don't and won't take anything for granted. That's why my business plan includes contributions to Veterans, Disabled and the community at large.  It's also why I'm so appreciative of people here at PWW.  Thank you.

This is sort of what I meant:

 

http://offermanwoodshop.com/

 

Brouse that page & look especially at the things under  the headings kindling    and bigsticks

 

There's a reason he is in LA.  It is the ability to get almost $ Five-Gees for a lousy little table.

The market there has a taste for that kind of what I'd call  overpayment.  But in fact it is not overpayment for the people who pay it.

 

Here's a video that sort of shows the work environment in that shop

http://youtu.be/6rWP_9-k0VA?list=PL47F7B78E8C0D1DA7

 

Somewhere else I'd seen a lousy organic joinery  ( maloof-esq) music stand ( yes a tripod)  sell for six figures.

 

One approach I've seen work well is to go burn some shoe leather and spend a few bucks taking people to lunch or coffee.  The people in question being high end interior designers in expensive markets like  LA Boston NYC etc. any big city really  - the point being to get in their  catalogs  to provide them with large 8 x 11 glossy pictures of your best work and info on how long it takes to produce and deliver etc..

This way the craftsman/artist only needs to make one sale  in order to sell several pieces and, happily, the market into which he is selling is usually a "cost is no barrier" kind of market  so you do make insane amounts per piece.

 

 

 

I have a weak grip, spasticity and pain with use due to neuropathy caused by spinal cord damage. I can do a little like use chisel to square up a joint or sand a little to fit. But I'm not able to use a hand plane or sanding block for any amount of time. Symptoms worsen with use, so even with benchtop tools I have to be careful, use all guards, use grippers and take frequent breaks. In general I have to limit myself to projects no larger than what fits in a two foot cube and weighs less than 15 lbs.

Thanks for the clarification Bob, and sorry I did not revisit this post in a few days, time is flying with the Holidays!