I have just been asked to build a display case for a comemorative (sp) rifle. He would like it lined with velvet or felt.

My question...........seems to me that I have heard that the oils in the gun metal will be absorbed by the material and a rust spot will build where it makes contact. Am I right????? If so...........what material is advised????

I would probably use the felt. A lot of them are lined with felt.

 

I would also use a brown felt as it would not show any stain as much as a lighter color.

I'm with John.  Felt would be my 1st choice and if the weapon was wiped down well before being put in the case I don't believe rust would be an issue.  That's my humble opinion.

From what I have heard on this issue, is the felt or velvet that absorb the moisture (humidity) from the air. I know the musicians (guitar players) use those silica gel packs to keep velvet lined guitar cases from receiving too much moisture.

Gee...maybe advise the customer of the issue? See what he thinks?

 

-Ace-

 

Rust is moisture and steel,

 

With that being said, the felt is not the problem but moisture in the case is.

 

And if there's moisture, the gun hitting the side ( or back) of the case with a colder outside temp difference will cause the condensation and there's your rust.

 

Think of that case as you would a humidor.  It's meant to protect and control humidity so it doesn't ruin your guns.

 

And having a basement flood or cold damp air in the room doesn't help.

 

Aceholeinone mentioned silica gel which might help but it is not the whole fix.

 

Like a humidor, keeping moist air in, your gun case needs to keep moisture OUT.

 

So now we need to answer a few questions, where in the house is the cabinet going?  Air conditions? temperature?

 

These will all effect how you build it and how well it seals.

 

By the way, a glass case in front of a window heating up the air in the case (and subsequently the steel in the gun) and AC air in the room can cause the same condition in REVERSE.

 

A Snug fitting door and some silica in bottom should be the ticket to prevent rust.

 

By the way, did you know the oils in your hand can screw up that nice wiped down oil job on that gun?

 

When they show some guy cleaning his gun in bare hands then putting it away, the oil in the fingers/hands on the barrel where it was last touched (being put in the cabinet, hold top of barrel and lean it in,) then blame the cabinet for finger marks, lol.

 

I and other pro's I know use white gloves and a stand to clean a gun.  Simular to changing a light bulb, the oils in your fingers when you change it will cause uneven heating of the glass and cause it to burn out quicker than if you used gloves.

 

John.........yes, I think I would suggest felt, but he said he wanted red as a background color.

Just as added info............he is giving this to his daughter and what I am told...........it will not come down from it's case...........ever. Kinda like a time capsual I guess.

John Moody said:

I would probably use the felt. A lot of them are lined with felt.

 

I would also use a brown felt as it would not show any stain as much as a lighter color.

Ron............can I hold you to that opinion???? That's really what I want to hear.

Ron Dudelston said:

I'm with John.  Felt would be my 1st choice and if the weapon was wiped down well before being put in the case I don't believe rust would be an issue.  That's my humble opinion.

Ace..........I can suggest a gel pack to the customer...........but how long...........how many years will it be effective???? I think they have a life span too.

Ace HoleInOne said:

From what I have heard on this issue, is the felt or velvet that absorb the moisture (humidity) from the air. I know the musicians (guitar players) use those silica gel packs to keep velvet lined guitar cases from receiving too much moisture.

Gee...maybe advise the customer of the issue? See what he thinks?

 

-Ace-

 

Oh gosh...ummm...maybe to be safe say....when you change the batteries in your smoke detectors or on a certain birthday? Shoot...they toss those little gel packs in electronic boxes shipped from overseas? So they must have some life to them? He should probably periodically be able to remove the rifle for oil? and clean the glass from the inside, Yes/No

Gary Heltemes said:

Ace..........I can suggest a gel pack to the customer...........but how long...........how many years will it be effective???? I think they have a life span too.

Ace HoleInOne said:

From what I have heard on this issue, is the felt or velvet that absorb the moisture (humidity) from the air. I know the musicians (guitar players) use those silica gel packs to keep velvet lined guitar cases from receiving too much moisture.

Gee...maybe advise the customer of the issue? See what he thinks?

 

-Ace-

 

Whow Mike.....how do I respond to a book?????

To my knowledge, this case will be going on promenent wall in their home. And i guess I can throw this in here. The customer I'm building for had been in the gun business for years.............so I imagine he would or has informed his daughter the proper climates for gun metal storage. So, I'm think'n all that has been covered.

Now I got a question for ya Mike. Silica is sand. I think you mean silicone.........right???? Man-O-man...........now I got another question for ya. Isn't it the acids in you body oils.............and not just the oils???? But whatever.............finger prints can lead to rust.................handle and store weapons with care.

Hey everyone..........thanks for the input and suggestions. I needed them.

gary

dragon1 said:

Rust is moisture and steel,

 

With that being said, the felt is not the problem but moisture in the case is.

 

And if there's moisture, the gun hitting the side ( or back) of the case with a colder outside temp difference will cause the condensation and there's your rust.

 

Think of that case as you would a humidor.  It's meant to protect and control humidity so it doesn't ruin your guns.

 

And having a basement flood or cold damp air in the room doesn't help.

 

Aceholeinone mentioned silica gel which might help but it is not the whole fix.

 

Like a humidor, keeping moist air in, your gun case needs to keep moisture OUT.

 

So now we need to answer a few questions, where in the house is the cabinet going?  Air conditions? temperature?

 

These will all effect how you build it and how well it seals.

 

By the way, a glass case in front of a window heating up the air in the case (and subsequently the steel in the gun) and AC air in the room can cause the same condition in REVERSE.

 

A Snug fitting door and some silica in bottom should be the ticket to prevent rust.

 

By the way, did you know the oils in your hand can screw up that nice wiped down oil job on that gun?

 

When they show some guy cleaning his gun in bare hands then putting it away, the oil in the fingers/hands on the barrel where it was last touched (being put in the cabinet, hold top of barrel and lean it in,) then blame the cabinet for finger marks,

lol

.

 

I and other pro's I know use white gloves and a stand to clean a gun.  Simular to changing a light bulb, the oils in your fingers when you change it will cause uneven heating of the glass and cause it to burn out quicker than if you used gloves.

 

Ace...........this case is going to be sealed. Well, kinda sorta. The only way in will be by removing the top. It will be a glass framed affair that will be screwed down. Yes, the rifle is accessable.............but it is going to be a p i t a .

Ace HoleInOne said:

Oh gosh...ummm...maybe to be safe say....when you change the batteries in your smoke detectors or on a certain birthday? Shoot...they toss those little gel packs in electronic boxes shipped from overseas? So they must have some life to them? He should probably periodically be able to remove the rifle for oil? and clean the glass from the inside, Yes/No

Gary Heltemes said:

Ace..........I can suggest a gel pack to the customer...........but how long...........how many years will it be effective???? I think they have a life span too.

Ace HoleInOne said:

From what I have heard on this issue, is the felt or velvet that absorb the moisture (humidity) from the air. I know the musicians (guitar players) use those silica gel packs to keep velvet lined guitar cases from receiving too much moisture.

Gee...maybe advise the customer of the issue? See what he thinks?

 

-Ace-

 

Gene I'd say inform the customer of what you have learned here, warning him of the different scenarios and let the choice be his. 

Thanks Ron.......and yes..............I will put this all out to him. I want my butt covered.

Ron Dudelston said:

Gene I'd say inform the customer of what you have learned here, warning him of the different scenarios and let the choice be his. 

I built a custom gun case for a client. I had no problem with lining the barrel rests with felt. Granted the material I used was top of the line at 27 a sq yard but to this day no problems and that was 4 years ago. I also used the same material for the butt rests although most of them are wood or some form of plastic. Most people that own "collector" guns take care od them. Pulling them and oiling what ever. This oil will also soak into the felt lining the barrel rest. So use a very good permanant glue when attaching it. I used a glue called EX 6000 I got from a sewing shop. Use a mask it's vapors are very high and my wife could smell it upstairs from my shop. I hope this helps, it worked great for me on a custom project and to this day the customer is totally satisfied.

Best Wishes

Wayne

 

The silica is not sand, it's a different animal.

 

Dessicants are usually made of different mixtures (charcoal, clay, etc...)

 

Sand is silicon dioxide (you know it as quartz)

 

Check out this site http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccantcity/desiccant_moistureadsorbingboard.htm

 

And yes, we do have acids in our bodies as well as alkalines that can chemically react with things.

 

Why not mount it in a single rack (like a truck rifle rack but made for 1 rifle) and use a piece of mouse pad on the holders for the rifle to rest on.

 

You could use felt and it wouldn't even touch the rifle barrel.

 

Or velvet, or satin.

Wayne.............I really like your report. And the oil soaking into the felt and thereby rusting of the metal was really my question. Thankyou.

Wayne Mahler said:

I built a custom gun case for a client. I had no problem with lining the barrel rests with felt. Granted the material I used was top of the line at 27 a sq yard but to this day no problems and that was 4 years ago. I also used the same material for the butt rests although most of them are wood or some form of plastic. Most people that own "collector" guns take care od them. Pulling them and oiling what ever. This oil will also soak into the felt lining the barrel rest. So use a very good permanant glue when attaching it. I used a glue called EX 6000 I got from a sewing shop. Use a mask it's vapors are very high and my wife could smell it upstairs from my shop. I hope this helps, it worked great for me on a custom project and to this day the customer is totally satisfied.

Best Wishes

Wayne

 

Mike............I respectfully..............sorta disagree with ya. Silica is sand. I worked in the oilfield for 25 yrs and we pumped a lot of sand (silica sand) down hole..................and they are still pumping it down hole.

If I knew how to put the link on here to show silica/sand...........I would. But...........I'm just an old dumb retired oilfield guy, and I don't know how to bring up links.

Which brings to mind a bumper sticker from the 1980's oil boom. It reads............" Please don't tell my mother I work in the oilfield....................she thinks I'm a piano player in a whore house"!!!!

 

dragon1 said:

The silica is not sand, it's a different animal.

 

Dessicants are usually made of different mixtures (charcoal, clay, etc...)

 

Sand is silicon dioxide (you know it as quartz)

 

Check out this site

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccantcity/desiccant_moistureadsorbi...

 

And yes, we do have acids in our bodies as well as alkalines that can chemically react with things.

 

Why not mount it in a single rack (like a truck rifle rack but made for 1 rifle) and use a piece of mouse pad on the holders for the rifle to rest on.

 

You could use felt and it wouldn't even touch the rifle barrel.

 

Or velvet, or satin.

Okay guys, I think this is one of those you are both right because of the wonderful English language. Here is the catch.

 

Silica gel is a granular, vitreous, highly porous form of silica made synthetically from sodium silicate. Despite its name, silica gel is a solid. It is a naturally occurring mineral that is purified and processed into either granular or beaded form. As a desiccant, it has an average pore size of 2.4 nanometers and has a strong affinity for water molecules.

Silica gel is most commonly encountered in everyday life as beads packed in a vapor-permeable plastic. In this form, it is used as a desiccant to control local humidity in order to avoid spoilage or degradation of some goods. Because of poisonous dopants (see below) and their very high absorption of moisture, silica gel packets usually bear warnings for the user not to eat the contents. If consumed, the pure silica gel is unlikely to cause acute or chronic illness. Food-grade desiccant should not include any poisons which would cause long-term harm to humans if consumed in the quantities normally included with the items of food.

 

Silica sand is one of the most common varieties of sand found in the world. It is used for a wide range of applications, and can be purchased from various suppliers throughout the world. Silica sand is used in industrial processing, to make glass, as fill, and to create molds and castings.

 

Silica being the base word and then it depends on the following word, gel or sand. The packets sometimes just get referred to as silica.

 

Gary, I really believe you will be fine with the felt of other lining. If moisture is the problem, then by all means put in a silica gel pack or two. I read a place or two that said the life of the gel packs was about 10 years. I also read on a gun collector site to soak some oil on the felt so that the felt could not absorb moisture.

 

I guess if the case is sealed, at some point it may have to be re-opened to replace the packets, but that is at least ten years down the road.

 

Also on the gun forum I was reading, there were three things that might affect the gun finish. Moisture, Friction and Chemical reaction.

 

If the cabinet rocks or vibrates where the gun rest on the supports it will wear the bluing thin over time.

 

Some type of locking on the cabinet, but allowing it to be opened for re-oiling and checking might be a good addition.

 

Hope any of this helps.

John............I will pass on to the customer about oiling the felt a little where it comes in contact with metal. That will be his responsibility. I will also look for a/some desicant ( aka::silica)   

And oh yes, I know all about wearing out the blueing from leaving rifles in my gun rack of my pickup..............back when you could do that sort of thing.

The problem I have with a locking mechanizm is................yrs down the road...........the key can most likely get lost. If a cover, lid, top or whatever is screwed on.............

Thanks all.

 

 

John Moody said:

Okay guys, I think this is one of those you are both right because of the wonderful English language. Here is the catch.

 

Silica gel

is a granular, vitreous, highly porous form of silica made synthetically from sodium silicate. Despite its name, silica gel is a solid. It is a naturally occurring mineral that is purified and processed into either granular or beaded form. As a desiccant, it has an average pore size of 2.4 nanometers and has a strong affinity for water molecules.

Silica gel

is most commonly encountered in everyday life as beads packed in a vapor-permeable plastic. In this form, it is used as a desiccant to control local humidity in order to avoid spoilage or degradation of some goods. Because of poisonous dopants (see below) and their very high absorption of moisture, silica gel packets usually bear warnings for the user not to eat the contents. If consumed, the pure silica gel is unlikely to cause acute or chronic illness. Food-grade desiccant should not include any poisons which would cause long-term harm to humans if consumed in the quantities normally included with the items of food.

 

Silica sand

is one of the most common varieties of sand found in the world. It is used for a wide range of applications, and can be purchased from various suppliers throughout the world. Silica sand is used in industrial processing, to make glass, as fill, and to create molds and castings.

 

Silica being the base word and then it depends on the following word, gel or sand. The packets sometimes just get referred to as silica.

 

Gary, I really believe you will be fine with the felt of other lining. If moisture is the problem, then by all means put in a silica gel pack or two. I read a place or two that said the life of the gel packs was about 10 years. I also read on a gun collector site to soak some oil on the felt so that the felt could not absorb moisture.

 

I guess if the case is sealed, at some point it may have to be re-opened to replace the packets, but that is at least ten years down the road.

 

Also on the gun forum I was reading, there were three things that might affect the gun finish. Moisture, Friction and Chemical reaction.

 

If the cabinet rocks or vibrates where the gun rest on the supports it will wear the bluing thin over time.

 

Some type of locking on the cabinet, but allowing it to be opened for re-oiling and checking might be a good addition.

 

Hope any of this helps.

I understand that. I saw on another forum a discussion about a locking box to house a handgun. They were talking about a magnetic type lock. I have to say I don't know much about them, but it would be like the turn on turn off magnets. Maybe way more than you want to look at though.

 

Anyway, I will be interested in what you do and be sure to keep us up on the project as you build it. Good way for all of us to learn in case we have the same thing come up.

 

Thanks

 

John

 

Gary said:

The problem I have with a locking mechanizm is................yrs down the road...........the key can most likely get lost. If a cover, lid, top or whatever is screwed on.............