OK admittedly, I do not have much experience with CA finishes, and I guess this is one of the reasons why I don't use it more.We are always told to rub vigorously and as you can see I got a bit carried away with that, but that's not really the issue. The issue is that it looks like it basically crystallized/ went white. I have had this happen a lot on pen blanks but not all of them, and I do each one of them the same as the last. Why does this keep happening? I'm tired of losing money this way. It's Zebra wood by the way.

The wood is dry not wet, I use the same type of paper towel and the same glue every time.

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Charles Nicholls
Site Host
nicholls61@att.net
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This website is new so it doesn't have much to it yet but you are welcome to take a look

Charles,

You indicated the wood is dry. I am not a pen turner, but have made a few, and all of the "exotic" blanks I have purchased are dipped in wax. I wonder if the blanks, although advertised as dry/stabilized do in fact have a high moisture content. This might explain the problem you are having.

I don't use CA for finishing, so I am not qualified to offer any real advice.

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Another thought, maybe try turning the blank then allowing it to sit for a couple of days. If you are in a hurry, maybe put the blank in a warm oven for a couple of hours to dry out any residual moisture.

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

More-

Are you using accelerant to speed drying? That causes the CA to heat up even more and maybe drawing any moisture to the surface.

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Is zebra wood oily? Maybe that could cause the problem.

Charles Nicholls said:

Thanks Lew, Actually I was surprised when I got these blanks because they were not encased in wax of any kind. I also am assuming it was dry because of the fact that when turned, the wood didn't come off stringy like woods usually do when wet, of course it may not be completely dry but at least drier than a lot of pen blanks I get.

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Charles Nicholls
Site Host
nicholls61@att.net
http://www.nichollswoodworks.com
This website is new so it doesn't have much to it yet but you are welcome to take a look

Hopefully some of our experienced pen turners can give you better advice on this. Again, my exposure to CA and its' characteristics are very limited.

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Charles, how much glue are you putting on the paper towel?

This is a Zebra Wood pen I turned last week and was finished with blo/ca.

It has six coats of blo/ca. I put a drop of BLO on the paper towel and then several drops of CA. I put the paper towel under the pen and slide it down the pen until the CA is off the towel and on the pen. I then fold the paper towel around the pen and move it back and forth up the blank holding it fairly tight so I so I can feel the heat. The heat is what sets the CA. I posted a video in Lew's Wednesday Turning post last week that William Young did on the BLO/CA finish. It is an excellent video to watch and it the exact way I finish my pens.

It looks like you may have had two much glue on the pen, but I am only guessing by looking at the photo. Not seeing you do the finish is hard to tell exactly. Also before I put any CA on the pen, I put a few drops of BLO on the towel and rub it up and down the pen blank.

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

An old saying "If you always do what you always did then don't be surprised when you get what you always got" 

Change your process. Something either in your materials or your technique is flawed. A CA finish is something that is achieved through practice with trial and error. This website has several tutorials that teach you how to apply a CA finish:

http://www.penturners.org/ you have to register but it's free. The tutorials are in the "library".

Sorry Charles, but the video was in one of your post from last week. Anyway I got the video again and will post it here.

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Charles,

Looking back over all that has been posted, it would seem the only variable has been the wooden blanks. Perhaps some of them did have a higher moisture content and the heat from the drying CA/ friction was enough to pull it to the surface and cause the discolorization.

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Charles, if you will check the MSDS sheet on CA glue it is a flammable as BLO. The flash point on both of them is extremely high. BLO should be fine as long as you store it properly and as safe as any other chemical you are using. It might make the results for this type finish work better.

Just my thoughts.

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Charles,

Found this info about BLO and CA

BLO

CA

Hope this helps

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Again, I'm no expert here but my opinion is that I doubt that there would be enough oil transferred to the turning.

Charles Nicholls said:

Thanks Lew, I don't know why other people are so afraid of it then, except that htere have been cases as I said of supposedly spontaneous combustion. It is said that combining the 2 on a rag then throwing it in the trash allows heat to build up which is supposedly great enough to cause combustion. I have never seen it personally other than in a Youtube video, but it was enough to get me to not use it together with CA.

Would natural oils from my hands cause a problem such as we see in my picture? I ask because I did rub it a bit looking for low spots before treating with CA.

Thanks

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Charles Nicholls
Site Host
nicholls61@att.net
http://www.nichollswoodworks.com
This website is new so it doesn't have much to it yet but you are welcome to take a look

First off the amount of oil / CA you would have on a rag if correctly applied during the complete application would only be about the size of a silver dollar and would take only minutes for any solvents to flash or gas off. Once the solvents have gassed off and the oil / CA has dried what is left on the rag is inert. You would have to have a rag soaked completely to pose a problem and again only until the solvent or finish on the rag has cured. Where problems have occured it's usually when the rag is placed in a trash can with a lid which slows down or prevents the solvents tendency to flash off or evaporate and it builds up heat.

Once you're finished sanding and satisfied with the smoothnes before finish application either wipe it down with a very small amount of alcohol (which will evaporate within a minute). And this will remove any oils left behind from your hands.

Charles Nicholls said:

Thanks Lew, I don't know why other people are so afraid of it then, except that htere have been cases as I said of supposedly spontaneous combustion. It is said that combining the 2 on a rag then throwing it in the trash allows heat to build up which is supposedly great enough to cause combustion. I have never seen it personally other than in a Youtube video, but it was enough to get me to not use it together with CA.

Would natural oils from my hands cause a problem such as we see in my picture? I ask because I did rub it a bit looking for low spots before treating with CA.

Thanks

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Charles Nicholls
Site Host
nicholls61@att.net
http://www.nichollswoodworks.com
This website is new so it doesn't have much to it yet but you are welcome to take a look

Charles,

Certainly natural oils from you hand could cause problems with your CA finish.  Usually they show up a white blotches under the finish.  I always do a final wipe with acetone before beginning a CA finish.  You can also use denatured alcohol (DNA).  However, DNA has an affinity for moisture and moisture and CA do not play well together.  

The finish in your picture looks like way to much CA was applied and more was applied before the last coat was dry.  I have found that the medium and thick CA take longer to dry than I think they should.  I have to force myself to wait until I am sure my next coat will not affect the last one.  Patience is a virtue that I am short on.  I have recently just started using only thin CA.  I have to use more coats but they go on much quicker.

As far as being worried about spontaneous combustion using BLO and CA I think your concerns are valid.  I also think that with a few common sense precautions you can eliminate any hazards.  In my shop I use a metal paint can with a lid to dispose of BLO and CA residue. I fill the can half full of water and put the rags and towel scraps in it.   A few precautions go a long way on easing you mind.

One of the posts above referenced the International Association of Penturners.  There are hundreds of turners on there every day.  I would wager that a dozen have run in to your exact situation.  In fact they have a forum just on finishing. It is free to join and post.  

Good luck and don''t give on CA.

Charles Nicholls said:

Thanks Lew, I don't know why other people are so afraid of it then, except that htere have been cases as I said of supposedly spontaneous combustion. It is said that combining the 2 on a rag then throwing it in the trash allows heat to build up which is supposedly great enough to cause combustion. I have never seen it personally other than in a Youtube video, but it was enough to get me to not use it together with CA.

Would natural oils from my hands cause a problem such as we see in my picture? I ask because I did rub it a bit looking for low spots before treating with CA.

Thanks

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Charles Nicholls
Site Host
nicholls61@att.net
http://www.nichollswoodworks.com
This website is new so it doesn't have much to it yet but you are welcome to take a look

I'm coming a little late to the party here, but I've had some experience with CA finishes.

I got started after picking up Penn State's "I can't believe this finish kit" which comes with a 

One of the big things that I learned was not to use paper towels or anything with cotton in it. CA reacts exothermically with cotton, which is why you end up with so much heat and fumes. I've taken to applying it directly with a latex glove. It takes a little longer to set up, but doesn't burn and allows for more even application. In addition to that benefit, it won't trap pieces of paper towel in the finish which can give the impression that it is crystallizing. 

Second, the first 4 or so coats should be applied one after without a set up time in order to make sure it soaks into the wood thoroughly. 

Lastly, don't be too stingy with the amount your applying. By letting the glue soak in initially and then building up several coats on top of it, you're creating a rock hard finish. My first CA pen has been wholly abused and while the finish on the metal is scratched and almost gone, the CA finish shows only minor dents and still looks great

it seems odd to me that your CA isn't setting in minutes. 

What brand are you using?

As for evenness of coating, I wouldn't worry too much as much of that can be fixed during the sanding and polishing phase.

That said, have you thought of using a clear acrylic spray?

Charles I use the same brand you are using but I use the one with the gold or yellow lable. When I get back to my computer I will post a picture of it. I am out right now and on my iPad.

Also when applying the finish and you start to feel the drag on the paper towel make sure you move the towel faster then and it will smooth out.

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Possibly. I never actually have the lathe running when I apply the glue. The only time I turn it on is after applying accelerator to build up some heat with the cloth.

Also I was looking up Satellite City glues, the green label is thick for gap filling. 

Penn State recommends (and I use) thin and fast, which is Satellite City's red label.  If you have that available, you might get better results.  I once used a gel CA for a finish, and it was probably the worst CA finish experience I had.  It just didn't behave well, and I remember it taking a while to become hard.