Delta 785 Bandsaw Restoration, and Upgrade

[Larry Buskirk]

The Delta model 785 Bandsaw was available in the catalogs from 1931-1937. The early year models had stamped steel wheels, and the later year models had cast wheels. The bandsaw that I will be doing is an early years model with the steel wheels. I wiil be upgrading the blade guides with ones from a 1950's Homecraft bandsaw. They are almost a direct replacement for the 785's original guides. Heres some pictures of the saw.

 

Today I'll be working on the lower drive-shaft assembly. The original ball bearings had been replaced with bronze bushings, by a previous owner in the past. The lower shaft had suffered some damage, but I will be reusing it. The previous owners attempt to keep the saw going, was somewhat crude. The bronze bushings didn't sit in the proper area of the lower shaft, and there was considerable wobble in the lower wheel assembly. The previous owner also tried to space the shaft on the bushings using a bunch of big flat washers, that damaged an area of threads on the shaft. This is what was on the lower shaft assembly.

 

 

The ball bearings are no longer available, and the rest of the bearings supporting parts are missing in action. So I have developed a work around for the problem. It involves using one of the bronze bushings that was on the saw, and a homemade bronze bushing made from a combination of three bushings that I bought at Ace Hardware. I will also be using a stop collar to provide adjustment for alignment of the shaft, and wheel. I replaced the flat washer that was holding the wheel to the shaft with a spare arbor washer from my Delta 1160 table saw.

 

 

The following pictures are of my high-tech machining work.

 

 

A comparison of the bushing that I assembled, versus what was on the saw.

 

 

A photo of where the bushing goes on the saw. The bushing that I made will go back to the stop in the bore, allowing the use of the inner set of threads on the shaft. I repaired the threads using the back edge of a utility knlfe, followed by running the nut as a thread chase. This photo shows the shaft with the parts that I will be using.

 

 

I had to get an oversize thrust bushing, and turn it down to fit the bore of the casting. The bore is 1 5/16" and bushings are either 1 1/4" or 1 3/8" so I had no choice but to turn down a 1 3/8" outer diameter bushing.

 

 

The Stick-It felt will be used to make felt seal washers for the bushing ends. I'll be drilling and tapping a hole in the casting so I can fill the shaft housing with oil for the bushings.

 

 

So there is my work around to the problem of no longer available bearings. the total cost for all of the materials to do this came to $17.87.  That was for 5 bushings, 2 that will be used for making the felt seal washers, the 3 to make the bushing, the stop collar, and the felt.

 

 

Thats it for today, so until the next time I have time to work on this saw,

 

 

Later,

 

 

Larry

 

[John Moody]

You are quick Larry. Man you will have that one running in no time.

Thanks for the progress report.

[John Morris]

Larry, I was wondering how you were going to do the bearing ordeal on the lower shaft assembly. We talked about it and I just could not envision this. Now it's clear as a bell. When you say you need to turn down the thrust bearing, are you actually taking steel off at a lathe?

 

I love those bronze bushings, they are cool.

Are all those bronze parts bushings? Or is there a bronze bearing in there some where.

 

If you could, in the last photo of this post, could name off the parts on that shaft starting from left to right? I am really curious. Thanks Larry, great project report and thanks for posting and sharing.

[Larry Buskirk]

Sure John,

From left to right:

 

1) Original nut that holds wheel to shaft

 

2) Arbor washer from Delta 1160 table saw

 

3) Inside shoulder that fits back of wheel this is part of the shaft

 

4) 5/8" stop collar the part with the set screw, this will provide spacing adjustment for the shaft and wheel

 

5) 5/8" x 1 5/16 bronze bushing, this is what was in both sides of the casting. The one on the pulley side was located where it was covering part of the inner threads on the shaft, and was causing the wobble in the shaft.

 

6) The 3 piece bushing that I assembled. When this is seated into the casting the offset created by moving the load bearing part of the bushing towards the center of the shaft will allow the load to be on the part of the shaft that was meant to have the bearing on it. The photo comparison of the two bushings shows how much farther back into the casting the face of the bushing will be. Both bushings are lined up at the back edge where the bushings bottom into the casting. By offsetting the bushing this way I gained 5/16" in front of the bushing allowing me to use the inner threads of the shaft. The double nuts on the pulley end of the shaft will actually be where the original bushing was located. The black half circle visible below the bushings in the comparison photo is one of the bronze bushings with the felt seal washer applied.

 

7) One of the bronze bushings with the felt seal washer. The other one is not in the photo, but will be located between the stop collar and bronze bushing.

 

8) The double nuts that provide preload for the seals, and bushings. One is used to lock the other into location, and prevent it from changing location.

 

The thrust bearing that I turned down was made of bronze. It looks like a big flat washer. I turned this down by hand using my high-tech machining method. Sandpaper! LOL I also had to turn down the shoulder of the larger collar bushing so it would clear the hole in the stop of the bore in the casting. The bushings are marine epoxied together to form a single bushing. The epoxy that I use withstands oils, saltwater, etc.

[Shane Whitlock]

Larry it looks like a fun restoration project. They are a handy little saw, I use mine probably more than any band saw in my shop.

 

You asked for some measurements for the back wooden blade guard so here are some pics in case others need them too.

 

It's 10-7/8" tall …

 

And "L" shaped. I should of took some pics with the ruler but its about 3/8" thick on the fat side and half that on the thin side. A little wider on the fat side would cover the blade better.

 

 

It's 1-3/8" wide and you can see the notched out area is 1-1/8 wide.

 

 

I wouldn't think the exact measurements are supper critical, just as long as the guard protects you from the blade.

 

 

Good luck!

[Larry Buskirk]

Shane,

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I would have thought it to be U shaped like the ones Delta used on the 14" band saws.

[Larry Buskirk]

The restored saw in the above photos is Shane Whitlocks.

 

I had asked him for the measurements for the wood blade guard, and he was kind enough to provide them.

 

Mine will look like the 700 scroll saw that I did, as I will again be using the black/red/brass color scheme that I used on it.

[John Morris]

So how goes it Larry?

How is the BS coming along?

I can't push you too hard because I still haven't found my Walker Turner yet!

 

 

[Larry Buskirk]

John,

 

If we can get a warm up things would pick up. It's a little rough painting in 30° weather!

 

I'll be working on the parts that I can in the meantime. I still need to order tires for it.

 

It seems like one project leads to another.

 

I also need to get the heat going in the shop, so I can work in there etc.etc.etc..

 

So many projects, just not the right time. It's a case of the old saying " When you've got the money you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the money.

 

Oh Well, life goes on!

[Larry Buskirk]

Wow,

 

I just looked at the last posting date for this project, and I didn't think it had been this long since my last post.

 

But with dealing with family members health issues, and other issues the time sure has gotten away from me.

 

It is now time to get back to getting a little something done to bring this machine back to working condition.

 

I have been acquiring a few parts during the time span since my last posting for this machine.

 

I will be replacing both wheel assemblys with the wheel assemblys from an early 1950's Delta Homecraft 10" bandsaw.

 

Doing so will allow me to use the one set of bearings that I have from the upper wheel assembly in the lower frame housing for the lower drive axle. The 785 used the same bearing assemblies for both the upper and lower axle shafts.

 

The bushings that I made up still left too much wobble with the 785's original lower drive axle shaft. The reason turned out to be that the shaft had been turned down in size by a previous owner. I discovered this when I got the Homecraft band saw parts.

 

Both the 785, and Homecraft band saws use an axle shaft size of 5/8".

But since I will be changing out the wheels I will be able to have bearings on both axles. The Homecraft saw used a Torrington needle bearing on the upper wheel, and a bronze bushing on the lower wheel shafts. I'll be using the 785's bicycle type bearings for the lower drive axle shaft. I'll also use the Homecrafts upper axle adapted to the 785's upper axle mount/blade tension assembly.

 

The Homecraft wheels are a spoked cast aluminum design, with a rim to help locate the tires when installing them. This will make installing tires easier than the 785's original rimless wheels.

 

I would have posted photos of the latest update, but I have misplaced the cord for my camera. It's probably right in front of me, but even with my glasses I'm not seeing it.

[James]

Larry, can we see some pics? How's your band saw going?

 

James

www.bandsawblog.com

[Larry Buskirk]

James,

 

I haven't had much time lately to work on the machines, due to running the wife to doctors appointments etc.

 

 

I'll try to get some photos up later today, that will show the comparison of the new old parts vs. the original parts.

 

 

[Mike Dillen]

Looking good Larry! How's your wife doing? I hope she's doing well!

[Larry Buskirk]

Mike,

 

Thanks for the compliment on the saw, due to missing/damaged parts this too will become a Resto-Mod like my 700.

 

 

The wife goes in Tuesday for gallbladder surgery, and then they want to do a test to check something they saw in her kidneys. So we are still in a wait and see mode.

 

[James]

Larry,

 

I hope your wife gets well soon. God Bless!

 

 

James

 

www.bandsawblog.com

[Larry Buskirk]

Thanks for the well wishes everyone.

 

I did finally get some time to do a little tinkering, and get some photos of the new direction this saw is going.

 

Due to missing/damaged and parts made out of unobtainium, I'll be using the axle and wheel assemblys from an early 1950's Homecraft band saw to replace the ones that are original to the 785. As it turned out not only were the lower bearing assemblys MIA, the lower drive axle had been slightly turned undersize by a previous owner in an attempt to fix this old band saw. But after doing a little research looking through the old Delta manuals I discovered that the 10" Delta Specialty Co. model 785 bandsaw and the 10" Homecraft model 28-110 bandsaws both used axle shafts that are 5/8" diameter. There are a few differences, but I've came up with work arounds that will "Getter Done"

 

Here are some photos comparing the parts from both machines.

 

 

The above photo shows the upper and lower axle shafts. The upper set are the original 785 axles, the lower the Homecrafts axles. As you can see there are some differences that I'll have to deal with.

 

 

 

These photos show the 785's original upper bearing parts that are made out of unobtainium. I have rebuilt these by replacing the 1/4" balls, cleaning up some slight scoring on both the bearing cups and cones. These parts will now become the lower axle bearings, to be used with the Homecrafts lower axle shaft and wheel. Luckily the 785 used the same bearing parts for the upper and lower axle shafts. The lower parts in the photo are the seal parts, the one on the right has had a new felt seal made and installed. The felt goes between the two metal parts.

 

 

This photo shows the wheels. I'm only showing one of the 785 wheels because they are both identical, with the exception being the metal cups insert into the bore to hold the bearing cups in the upper wheel. The gray spoked wheel is the Homecraft upper, the red the lower. Both will be painted red.

 

 

This photo shows the Homecrafts upper wheel bearings, they are a Torrington needle bearing.

 

 

This photo shows how the lower shaft will be assembled minus the seals. You can see that these wheels have a rim for locating the tires which will make it easier to install the tires. The 785's wheels are rimless.

 

 

 

These photos show the parts I'll be using to mount the Homecraft upper axle to the 785's tension assembly, which is the second photo.

 

 

This photo shows the bushings installed on the tension assembly.

 

 

 

These photos show it mounted. I need to get an oil cap (Gits) for the end of the axle shaft. I may just tap the hole and use a small brass pipe plug.

 

I did find some original bearing parts, on another website that I won't mention here, but was not willing to pay $150.00 plus shipping for used parts. I paid less than 1/3 of that with shipping for these Homecraft parts, and the bushings.

 

So this is my work around for getting this old 785 band saw back into running condition. I actually like the looks of the Homecraft wheels better than the 785's stamped steel wheels.

 

[James]

Oh come on Larry! Tell us what site. That would be great info!

 

 

www.bandsawblog.com

[Larry Buskirk]

James,

 

The owner of that website has stated that he want's as much seperation, and no connection between "HIS" website and The Patriot Woodworker as is possible. Therefore I refuse to mention that websites name in a post.

 

 

I have sent you a friend request and if you accept it, I will give you the websites name in an off post message.

 

[Larry Buskirk]

Today I  decided to do a test fit of the Homecraft band saw parts to the 785's frame, and I am very happy with the way that these parts fit. The following photos show how well this is going to work out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I checked with a straight edge accross the face of the wheels, and to my surprise the wheels are in alignment with one another.

 

Even the rebuilt 785 bearings spin smoothly and quietly now, before there was a clicking noise and an amount of grinding that could be felt when turning them.

 

I will be putting the frame back through the electrolysis tank to remove the rust that has developed from sitting for the past few months. Once done I'll be painting it with Rust-Oleum Hammered Black, the wheel covers will be painted the same.

[James]

What parts are the new ones? I would assume the lower drive wheel, but what are the other parts that you replaced?

 

 

www.bandsawblog.com