I had posted this a few weeks ago on another forum and got some good advice, but I'm looking for as many opinions as I can find so here gos: I make no bones about that fact I'm a hobbyist woodworker and no desire to try to make money in any way from the hobby. Well, my neighbor has seen a few of things I've made and on Dec. 5 asked me how hard to it would be to build a ladder shelf (those open book shelves where the bottom is deeper then the top). Answering honestly, I told him they were fairly simple....to which he replied "how much would it cost for you to build one?" To shorten the story, it was for his daughter's Christmas gift and I would have had about 3 weeks so, not knowing how to say "no", I told I'd do it no charge (he buys the materials). They were quite happy with the shelf, and presented my with an apple pie and $75 for the effort (first time I've ever received money for my stuff). I thought I was done, but a few nights ago he was at the door and said "hey, I have a few more projects for you", another ladder shelf and an enclosure for his door bell. I don't mind doing favors for folks, but fear this may become an oncoming thing....something I want no part of. The stress of building something for someone else is not what I'm in this for. How would you go about getting out of this? Or, am I making a big deal out of nothing?

I feel your pain Fred as do all of us here becasue I'd venture to guess that we've all been there.  Actually I approach these requests in one of two ways depending on who it is.  First, if I don't want to make the project I set the price very high.  Case in point, I make my daughter an oak swing for her porch.  Her sister in law decided she needed one and asked my daughter to ask me what the price would be.  She probably thought I'd shoot her a "family discount" price.  I actually set the price at $400 which wasn't out of bounds for the swing.  Never hear back from her.  Most of the time I'm honest with people and tell them I don't want to do it.  In your case I'd tell the neighbors that you were honored to build the shelf for them and most appreciative of the stipend but making goods for money turns your hobby into a job and you want to keep it as a hobby.  They'll understand.

 

Hope this helps.

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Ron Dudelston
Site Administrator

Above and Beyond WoodWorks

Those solutions sound good Ron. 

But darn it, I was going to ask both you guys for a favor. 

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Gene
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

Well I am certainly not the person to answer this question. I have a problem saying no and usually get myself in way over my head and more dead lines than the phone company.

But on one or two occasions I have been able to say, you know I thank you for the compliment of asking me, but I just can't. I was able to help you with the other project and was very thankful for your compensation. This is a hobby for me and I like to keep it a hobby. I know some other woodworkers that do this for profit and I will be glad to assist you in getting in touch with them.

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

I think we have all been there at one time or another. I guess I'm "lucky"- I can sometimes use the excuse of being busy at the school, or working on something else. 

Ron's suggestion of setting the price, to a fair amount, including labor, supplies, shop wear and tear usually puts a stop to it.

The worst are the ones that go to your wife and ask here to ask you to do it!

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Learning to say "No" to people is something that you have to learn to do without any remorse as a woodworker. I am approached on a regular basis to build things by people from my wife's work, neighbors, church and friends. There are some things that I will do that can be done easily but most I just now say "No" right off the bat and tell them that I have too many projects in the mix to add anything else, which is true as I have a major backlog of things that I need/want to make. The hardest one that I had to deal with was getting my wife to say no to people as she was volunteering me on a regular basis to build things for some of the other teachers at her school. I finally asked her how she would like it if I volunteered her to baby sit someone else's kids for an evening and she said that she would not like that. So bringing it into a perspective that she could relate to made things a lot easier.

One of the surprising things for me is that I am contacted by email on a regular basis by people I do not know who have seen something that I have made and posted photos of online on a woodworking forum or on Facebook and they want me to make one for them. In particular are things that I made for our church as I made some large frames that hang in the foyer of the church as well as 2 standing offering boxes that sit in the back of our sanctuary and a wall offering box that I made for our church office. 

It is flattering when people like what I do and I love doing it. But you have to learn to draw a firm line and be protective of your time and courteously tell them no.

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Allen Worsham
Corona, CA

allenworsham@earthlink.net

'Graze in every man's field, but always give your own milk' J. Vernon McGee

I used to make cedar hope chests for the public, made a lot of money, the problem got to be, finding good quality cedar that I could buy and still be able to make money.After making over 200 cedar chests,and not being able to find good wood, I started refusing to make them. I di however have one guy that just insisted that I make him one. I told hm I would, but only if he bought the wood, had it planned down and brought it to me. Then he said ok, if i do that what will it cost him for me to make it, when I told him the price, he decided to make it himself, I never heard from him again

"how much would it cost for you to build one?" To shorten the story, it was for his daughter's Christmas gift and I would have had about 3 weeks so, not knowing how to say "no",

When that happens to me in my business my answer is something like:

"Well my regular rate is $1500 per hour, but for you I could do it for maybe $1200.00 "  That usually ends the discussion.

People ask me to do  woodworking things occasionally  I just give them a funny look.  If they don't get the hint and persist, I tell 'em something like: "If I wanted to do woodwork for money I'd have to charge about the same rates per hour as I  do as an attorney or else sell my home and  go live in a trailer."  It's hard to imagine someone so dense as that wouldn't get the point across.  

Lew, in my world people never approach my wife to intervene becasue they all know I'm the softer touch and if I say no then it's over.

Lewis Kauffman said:

I think we have all been there at one time or another. I guess I'm "lucky"- I can sometimes use the excuse of being busy at the school, or working on something else. 

Ron's suggestion of setting the price, to a fair amount, including labor, supplies, shop wear and tear usually puts a stop to it.

The worst are the ones that go to your wife and ask here to ask you to do it!

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Great stuff, thanks to all for the advice.  I don't mind the occassional favor for someone, but my concern is if/when I become a "goto" guy for anything wood. I think I'll sit down and compile a note on what I want to say using the advice I've been offered.

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No Ref

Say "YES" lol.

 

But you need to make the stipulation it'll be on YOUR time frame, not theirs.Time and Materials, set ups and blade replacement goes into it too.

 

The extra money can be used on bigger and better stuff.

 

Just make sure it's on YOUR TIME FRAME.

 

Keeps the pressure off.

 

Here is another way to say it:

the query: "Hey Joe can you make me a wood gizmo? How much do you think you'd charge?"

the answer:  "Uhh  no,  but thanks for asking."

What are they going to do - - -complain?  The worst they can do is  to stupidly ask you to clarify that you really don't want to do it for $$$. And you can reply with the world's best advice  on the topic that I remember spoken by John Hamilton ( Perry White)  from the original Black and White Superman serialized TV show.  He said: "The surest way to take the pleasure out of a thing it to make a responsibility out of it." 

Now for the pathetic part:

Google that quotation and all you get are hits having something to do with sexual activity.  I guess the world pleasure is on a google  algorithm that it  just  defaults to and  those algorithms are all generated subsequent to people's actual searches and the search result hyperlinks they click on.

 I tell freinds and neighbors  to come over when I am in the shop and I will teach and help them build it. I tell them I don;t have time when they need it. Only one took me up on the offer and now he has his own shop. The others found different gifts to buy.

Nice, that kind of separated them out didn't it now!

Dan Klinglesmith said:

 I tell freinds and neighbors  to come over when I am in the shop and I will teach and help them build it. I tell them I don;t have time when they need it. Only one took me up on the offer and now he has his own shop. The others found different gifts to buy.

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker
Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project

 I am also a hobby woodworker and have made hundreds of things for myself and my family. I have been asked many times to make projects for other people for a price. The answer is always," I'm sorry but I do this because I love to do it, not for another job and not for money. I don't want deadlines or bosses and I want the freedom of just having fun."

That has always worked for me

Be prepared if you decide to try and give them an inflated price. About three years ago someone asked me to make some 8 inch pepper-mills. I don't enjoy making them so I told them that with time involved and lumber prices I could not do it for less than $150 each. A week later they stopped by with a check for $450 and ordered three units. Granted I got some new tools out of the deal, but never expected to actually make them.

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Kevin Wells
Chuckin' Wood
www.chuckinwood.com