March 18, 201313 yr I have in the past two years become a great fan of the water based dyes, specifically Homestead Transfast Dye. And I understand John Moody is getting a 2oz bottle of this product and I wanted to fire up this discussion for any questions John may have regarding the use of dye and to anyone else who may have some questions. So, let's have it folks, questions on the application of this product are open now! John Morris The Patriot Woodworker Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project
March 18, 201313 yr Well John, I ordered two bottles since I didn't know how much it would take for the pulpit. I also figured I would need some to experiment with. I ordered the Antique Cherry dye, so I am open to any suggestions you or anyone else has. I have never used the dye as a stain and I am looking forward to picking up this new way of adding an even color.I guess I will ask if it sprays good or did you brush it on? I really like the idea of spraying it if possible.Are there any advantages to mixing it with the shellac and spraying it at the same time or spray it first and then sand and spray the shellac.Also how much water did you put on to raise the grain before the application of the dye? Can I use a mist bottle or should I put it on with a sponge?Wow I got so many questions and so little time.John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 18, 201313 yr I used dye for this quilted maple jewelry box but I mixed it with denatured alcohol. You can mix it with water but the alcohol dries faster. As far as raising the grain, I wiped the box with alcohol and that raised the grain and then I sanded and applied the dye. The finish came out very smooth. I think dye comes out more even. I wish I had used it on my roll around tool cart and I wouldn't have had a blotchy finish. www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops
March 18, 201313 yr I really like the evenness of the color on that Maple.Mike did you spray the dye or wipe on or how did you apply it?John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 18, 201313 yr John I used a foam applicator and allowed the dye to sit until I was satisfied with the shade and wiped the excess off. I suppose you could spray it but wear gloves and cover anything you don't want dye on.www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops
March 19, 201313 yr Good Point!Mike Dillen said:John I used a foam applicator and allowed the dye to sit until I was satisfied with the shade and wiped the excess off. I suppose you could spray it but wear gloves and cover anything you don't want dye on.www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops
March 19, 201313 yr Author John, welcome to the world of custom colors and having it your way!I love dyes, they go on easy, and they really make grain pop, that being said, there are things folks need to know that if they did not know it, they would go ape crazy over their first application.Your questions in order.Yes, spray it! It sprays excellent! Flood it on. Keep a brush in your back pocket just to pick up runs or gathering of stain at the lower edges. Do not brush any stain that looks less then wet, you'll streak it. If you should streak it, don't sweat it, it goes away most of the time as the water evaporates and leaves the pigment behind. If the streak is screaming at you, take some 400 sand paper and blend it lightly after it dries for the 24 hrs, that's all it takes. For a chest you'll use about a quarter of one two oz bottle. If you plan on doing more chests in the near future, say in the next two months, make up a gallon of the stain, it has a pretty good shelf life, mix it in a milk jug or something plastic.Mix your first batch to specs, per the instructions, you'll probably like it, if you don't add more dye, or add more water, keep a record of your ratios and add ins if you modify the mix, that way you can duplicate it in the future. But to make things easy, I would go with the spec mix.John, I do not know about the shellac, I have never done it and I am not sure how you would mix it, if it even mixes well with an alcohol based finish such as shellac, your Transfast is water base. I don't know.I use a wet rag, a mist bottle will work. That is one of the draw backs about water base dye, you have to basically sand twice. But, and a big but, several times I skipped the raising the grain step by accident, just not thinking clearly is all, and it turned out just as nice. Because you never just go with the first coat of finish, you have to sand the first coat anyway, so you'll remove any roughness that may have been cause by the grain raising, but I have not experienced any issue by skipping the grain raising step. For your first time, do it by the book.Keep in mind, the water base dye does not penetrate as deep as oil based anything. So when sanding, if you accidentally burn through your first coat of finish, you could also inadvertently burn through a layer of stain. Just be kind when sanding, use a sanding block the first coat, a sanding block levels out the finish really nice too, so it's a good habit to block it.It's easy to get a nice even coat of stain on the test board, but when your doing a sizable project, the stain could quite possibly look horrible and you'll fall into a deep state of depression at first, then after about a half hour passes and the water evaporates from the pigment, you see that it evens out beautifully, you'll do a little jig dance around the shop and rejoice that it all worked out great. While applying the stain, you'll see uneven tones, avoid trying to fix it!Alot of folks use sponges like Mike Dillen does, my hat off to Mike, I can not use them for dyes, I am a nervous wreck on a big project because I cannot work the stain or control it well enough to keep it from dripping and running all over. Remember, it's water, and it runs! So I love the spray method, it goes on even, and it's quick. For small project like boxes and such, an applicator is no sweat, but when you have a large project like a chest, or even those blanket chests you make, I would recommend spraying. No offense Mike. If you have more questions John, fire away. You have my phone number too if you get in a pinch.John Moody said:Well John, I ordered two bottles since I didn't know how much it would take for the pulpit. I also figured I would need some to experiment with. I ordered the Antique Cherry dye, so I am open to any suggestions you or anyone else has. I have never used the dye as a stain and I am looking forward to picking up this new way of adding an even color.I guess I will ask if it sprays good or did you brush it on? I really like the idea of spraying it if possible.Are there any advantages to mixing it with the shellac and spraying it at the same time or spray it first and then sand and spray the shellac.Also how much water did you put on to raise the grain before the application of the dye? Can I use a mist bottle or should I put it on with a sponge?Wow I got so many questions and so little time.John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.comJohn MorrisThe Patriot WoodworkerProud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project
March 20, 201313 yr What about wood fillers? Should you put the dye on and then try to match or can you dye the filler and apply before you put the top coat on?John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 20, 201313 yr Author Hmmmm, I have not used wood filler before or after staining with dye's John. One thing for sure you need to make sure it's water based! But I did a little research and found that Timbermate does really well with dye and it is best to apply it before stain. I have heard rave reviews of Timber Mate and I believe what I am reading because woodworkders close to us have said the same thing, it's the cats meow. I wish I new more on that subject.Here is little link on some information on TimbermateJohn Moody said:What about wood fillers? Should you put the dye on and then try to match or can you dye the filler and apply before you put the top coat on?John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.comJohn MorrisThe Patriot WoodworkerProud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project
March 21, 201313 yr It takes some experimentation, but I've had success in dying saw dust and mixing it with glue for filler. The saw dust will definitely be darker than the already dyed piece to be filled. Ya gotta fiddle with it a bit by adding un dyed dust to the mix.  Gene'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton
March 23, 201313 yr I'll have to experiment with that Gene. I have mixed sawdust with glue before and put in a spot or too. Maybe mixing it with the dye and glue would work in some small area.Good thoughtJohn MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 23, 201313 yr Well I had a couple of boards I had sanded and raised the grain on with DNA. I brushed on some of the Antique Cherry Red Dye tonight on the Cherry boards. Here is one of the boards prior to the dye. And here are a couple of the boards with the dye brushed on. I'll take a shot in the morning when it dries. I mixed the dye with hot distilled water last night and let it sit all night to cool down. I did use a stirring stick to mix up the dye after it was put in the water. I put in half the water, then added the dye, put in the rest of the water and then stirred. So in the morning we will see how it works out. John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 23, 201313 yr Author Lookin good John! It'll dry in about 20 minutes and you'll be able to see how it looks before morning if your up still up, I love the color so far!John Moody said:Well I had a couple of boards I had sanded and raised the grain on with DNA. I brushed on some of the Antique Cherry Red Dye tonight on the Cherry boards.Here is one of the boards prior to the dye.And here are a couple of the boards with the dye brushed on. I'll take a shot in the morning when it dries.I mixed the dye with hot distilled water last night and let it sit all night to cool down. I did use a stirring stick to mix up the dye after it was put in the water. I put in half the water, then added the dye, put in the rest of the water and then stirred.So in the morning we will see how it works out.John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.comJohn MorrisThe Patriot WoodworkerProud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project
March 23, 201313 yr It has a pretty deep color to it John. I think I am going to really like it. Can't wait to see it dry and with the Shellac and Varnish on it.John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 24, 201313 yr Mike, WOW. What a fantastic result. Mike Dillen said: I used dye for this quilted maple jewelry box but I mixed it with denatured alcohol. You can mix it with water but the alcohol dries faster. As far as raising the grain, I wiped the box with alcohol and that raised the grain and then I sanded and applied the dye. The finish came out very smooth. I think dye comes out more even. I wish I had used it on my roll around tool cart and I wouldn't have had a blotchy finish. www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops
March 25, 201313 yr Looks like I am going to have to change the color on the pulpit. The Cherry it a little too red for the place it is going. I have found out that everything that is in there is a dark oak stain. It hurts me to color cherry to look like oak. Here are a couple of sample colors The top board is the dyed cherry. The board in the middle is the Cherry plywood and has a Chestnut stain on the left and Dark Mahogany on the right. The two smaller boards at the bottom are solid cherry with the Chestnut on the left and the Mahogany on the right. John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
March 25, 201313 yr You definately have to put Jacobean on it!!! :-)Â Ron DudelstonSite AdministratorAbove and Beyond WoodWorks
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