May 6, 201313 yr I have been interested for several years in learning how to and doing some veneer work. In the process I am interested it getting a vacuum press. I am looking to veneer some panels, table tops and some bending around a form. Any of you have any advice on vacuum pumps? Have you an advice on doing veneering? Do's don't and what you have experienced, John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
May 6, 201313 yr John, A friend of mine who does a ton of intricate and, sometimes large, marquetry projects uses a mechanical press. Here's a link to a pic of his press. My system is a little less elegant. I use UniStrut. In this picture, I'm not using the UniStrut as a press, but you get the idea. After their use to keep the panel glue up even, I use them to press the panels together face to face, much like a veneer press with reeeely thick veneer.  I plan to use them as a true veneer press in the near future. When I do, I'll use a true 1" thick MDF ballast on both sides of the panel.  Gene'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton
May 6, 201313 yr John, I don't have any experience dealing veneering but you may want to touch base with Matt Sieler over on Wood Magazine Forums as he does  a lot of of it and he has posted a number of times about presses and his process.Allen WorshamCorona, CAallenworsham@earthlink.net'Graze in every man's field, but always give your own milk' J. Vernon McGee“Our greatest fear should not be that we won’t succeed, but that we will succeed at something that doesn’t matter.†D.L. Moody
May 6, 201313 yr John,Like you I've been interested in veneering but have not got passed the research stage. I'd suggest you spend some time at the link below. There's lots of good information there to help you. In my research I've been pointed to this website many times by lots of guys at different woodworking sites.Do your research and then decide if you want to buy a system or build your own and go from there.http://www.joewoodworker.com/Somewhere in Kenya.... a village is missing its idiot! Alaskans for Gobble Warming
May 7, 201313 yr Author Matt is very good at that. i talk to him some on facebook. I'll send him a message.Allen Worsham said:John, I don't have any experience dealing veneering but you may want to touch base with Matt Sieler over on Wood Magazine Forums as he does  a lot of of it and he has posted a number of times about presses and his process.Allen WorshamCorona, CAallenworsham@earthlink.net'Graze in every man's field, but always give your own milk' J. Vernon McGee“Our greatest fear should not be that we won’t succeed, but that we will succeed at something that doesn’t matter.†D.L. Moody
May 7, 201313 yr Author A good resource Rich. it is something i hve wanted to do but haven't researched it like i should. i guess while i have a little time i will be asking some questions.Richard McComas saidJohn,Like you I've been interested in veneering but have not got passed the research stage. I'd suggest you spend some time at the link below. There's lots of good information there to help you. In my research I've been pointed to this website many times by lots of guys at different woodworking sites.Do your research and then decide if you want to buy a system or build your own and go from there.http://www.joewoodworker.com/Somewhere in Kenya.... a village is missing its idiot! Alaskans for Gobble Warming
May 9, 201313 yr Almost any vacuum pump will do. Most will crank out 29 inches Hg. Price and size depends on how long it takes 'em to get there.I have a twin stage Sargent Welsh rotary vein pump. It's fast.Depending on the glues you are using you may need fast.But you really don't need vacuum. The forefathers of veneering used hide glue and a veneer hammer. It's not really a hammer and you don't hit things with it, but it is a head on a handle so it's stupidly called a hammer.  Doesn't even need to be on a shaft-like handle. you press the veneer down and shove it around to get all the air out and get the final position of the veneer.You can easily veneer almost anything and any shape imaginable with just the hammer and hide glue. You may have to custom build hammers to conform to certain shapes like 3-D curves
May 10, 201313 yr Author Cliff which is better a diaphram or rotary pump? Does one get it there faster than the other? John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
May 10, 201313 yr I think the rotary pumps are the fastest, but scale changes everything. One way you can get a slow pump to be a fast acting machine is to add a reservoir tank to the system. This is common in industrial vacuum forming of sheet plastic.You get an air compressor tank or a big hunk of large heavy PVC pipe - whatever - that will accommodate the amount of air you will be pulling out of the vacuum press rig and still have plenty of room for more : maybe three or four times the volume of air. There's a valve between the reservoir and the vacuum press.You pull the air out of the reservoir to the maximum your pump can. Then when you are ready to get the press going you just open the valve to between the reservoir and the vacuum press and WHOOOSH all the air rushes into the reservoir. This instantly draws a very strong vacuum on your press.At which point (if you wanted a measure of over kill) you could have built a second line to the vacuum press directly to the pump which is also valved. Then just flip the valves so the reservoir is isolated and the pump is pulling directly on the vacuum press rigBut like I said the glue you use can make all this speed unnecessary.  Water based glues can bleed through the veneer and ruin your work with the one exception of hide.  I've seen hide glue used on both sides of the veneer with no ill effect to the workÂ
May 10, 201313 yr Well said, Cliff. Often, a hammer and/or clamping is the best. Certainly far less of a hassle and FAR LESS expensive. Cliff said:Almost any vacuum pump will do. Most will crank out 29 inches Hg. Price and size depends on how long it takes 'em to get there.I have a twin stage Sargent Welsh rotary vein pump. It's fast.Depending on the glues you are using you may need fast.But you really don't need vacuum. The forefathers of veneering used hide glue and a veneer hammer. It's not really a hammer and you don't hit things with it, but it is a head on a handle so it's stupidly called a hammer.  Doesn't even need to be on a shaft-like handle. you press the veneer down and shove it around to get all the air out and get the final position of the veneer.You can easily veneer almost anything and any shape imaginable with just the hammer and hide glue. You may have to custom build hammers to conform to certain shapes like 3-D curves
May 10, 201313 yr Author I noticed several of the pumps say they are made for continuous operations. Are the rotary pumps able to run continuously without damage to the pumps? I was looking at this kit from woodcraft. Is this a good kit to learn with or would you be better to buy a pump and bag separately and spend more money to get started? http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005086/19303/vacuum-veneering-kit-with-pump-and-36-x-54-vinyl-bag.aspx John MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
May 10, 201313 yr My use of veneer is for backing on projects. Â Having a rough time coming up with the right adhesive. Â Keeps coming loose from the project board. Â Using paper-backed veneer - maybe that's my problem too. Â Finally found some E6000 adhesive. Â comes in clear and white. Â Used this on the last few projects. Â We'll see how it goes. Â Gluing the front side to the project has been giving me fits.Fredaka Pop's Shopwww.pops-shop.com'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'Scroll Saw Forum Host
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.