Hello,

I'm cutting some 30 degree mitered angles on the table saw and it's leaving an area that is not cut completely through the board but rather just appears to tear off on the top upper side.  I'm using a 40 tooth blade.  Would an 80 tooth blade prevent this from happening?  Or is my blade too high or too low?  

Appreciate any help.  

SQ

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

Hi SQ! Haven't "seen" you around for a while.

Some of my thoughts for your problem would be that the blade might be too low and a 80 tooth blade might help. Also, do you have a zero clearance insert on the saw. That would help with the bottom side.

I know that these helped me some on my cuts.

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Harry Brink
Bulldog Woodworking
Montana

Sue, a table saw should not produce that type of end cut, that is more common with a miter saw or chop saw not being able to complete the cut. First off, your assumptions are correct, you should be using an 80 tooth blade for cross cutting on the table saw of solid lumber, and the 40 tooth is fine for ripping.

What I would do first is check that the board you are cutting is not warped or cupped, if it's cupped then the board at the tail end of the cut could be rising above the blade.

You can also raise the blade more above the work piece.

Blade height is a personal thing I feel, many folks like to have just a little protruding through their work piece, I like about an inch or more protruding through, I feel you get a better cut as the teeth at the lead cut are cutting in a downward stroke more so then a blade that is just barely protruding through the piece.  It's what you feel comfortable with.

But yes, 80 tooth, raise the blade a little, and that should take care of that little nib at the end, especially if the board is cupped a little. Ideally you want to work with a completely flat board for appearance and safety reasons, so you should always try to work with a completely flat board and straight.

By the way, great to see ya!!!!

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker
Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project

A table saw that is properly set with a blade that is in alignment and sharp should not cut wood in this manner.

The first thing to look at is the blade. If the blade is dull and in need of sharpening/replacing it can cause poor and/or uneven cuts. Also if a blade has a tooth or teeth that are bent or out of line it can cause poor and/or uneven cuts. If your blade has chipped or missing carbide it can cause poor and/or uneven cuts.

Next check that the blade angle is at at true 90 degree because if it is not it can cause poor and/or uneven cuts. Also check your belts to make sure that they are in good condition and tightened properly as this can cause cutting issues due to the power not being consistent to the blade due to slipping or being too tight.

Also check your miter gauge and rip fence for alignment and excessive play as these can cause poor and/or uneven cuts.

You should always use a good quality blade to get the best cuts. There are a lot out there in all price ranges. The most economical good quality blades that I would recommend would be the Freud higher end blades (not the ones at Home Depot but from a woodworking store or website). 

As for blade height, there are a number of opinions and preferences. What I was taught many years ago and still do is set the blade so that the entire carbide tip is about 1/8-1/4" above the wood. This allows for the full use of the carbide tip with a better angle of penetration and pass thru on the wood as well as allows the gullets to not get clogged with saw dust and pitch. Also the less blade exposed above the wood the less chance of getting your fingers or anything else caught in the blade.

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Allen Worsham
Corona, CA

allenworsham@earthlink.net

'Graze in every man's field, but always give your own milk' J. Vernon McGee

“Our greatest fear should not be that we won’t succeed, but that we will succeed at something that doesn’t matter.â€
D.L. Moody

I wasn't really clear on my first post.  The blade is at 90 degrees and the miter gauge is set at 30 degrees.  I'm just setting this miter gauge up and checking to make sure my joints are tight.  My intent is to make some multi-sided boxes.

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

Hi Harry, 

Good to see you!  I don't have an 80 tooth but did put on a 60 tooth blade and raised the blade up.  I attached a picture of the set up.  I believe this is considered zero clearance.  

Appreciate all your suggestions.

SQ

Harry Brink said:

Hi SQ! Haven't "seen" you around for a while.

Some of my thoughts for your problem would be that the blade might be too low and a 80 tooth blade might help. Also, do you have a zero clearance insert on the saw. That would help with the bottom side.

I know that these helped me some on my cuts.

---

Harry Brink
Bulldog Woodworking
Montana

SQ- From your last picture, my guess would be the blade needs to be raised. The problem could be occurring if your sled has a built in stop and it doesn't push past the blade far enough to make the complete cut (with the blade at the original position) 

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

Hi John,

Very good to see you and appreciate your response. Attached a picture of the miter gauge and sled I'm using. 

John Morris said:

Sue, a table saw should not produce that type of eHind cut, that is more common with a miter saw or chop saw not being able to complete the cut. First off, your assumptions are correct, you should be using an 80 tooth blade for cross cutting on the table saw of solid lumber, and the 40 tooth is fine for ripping.

What I would do first is check that the board you are cutting is not warped or cupped, if it's cupped then the board at the tail end of the cut could be rising above the blade.

You can also raise the blade more above the work piece.

Blade height is a personal thing I feel, many folks like to have just a little protruding through their work piece, I like about an inch or more protruding through, I feel you get a better cut as the teeth at the lead cut are cutting in a downward stroke more so then a blade that is just barely protruding through the piece.  It's what you feel comfortable with.

But yes, 80 tooth, raise the blade a little, and that should take care of that little nib at the end, especially if the board is cupped a little. Ideally you want to work with a completely flat board for appearance and safety reasons, so you should always try to work with a completely flat board and straight.

By the way, great to see ya!!!!

---

John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker
Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

Changed the blade and also raised the blade up and it eliminated the nip.    

If I need any help with this miter gauge I know who to ask.  

Again, thanks for all the help!

SQ

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

Nice tight miters!!

SQ said:

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

Changed the blade and also raised the blade up and it eliminated the nip.    

If I need any help with this miter gauge I know who to ask.  

Again, thanks for all the help!

SQ

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

Lewis,

Thank you!  I am so pleased with this miter gauge and sled.  I have been wanting one of these for a very long time.  We tried to make a homemade one but never could get the miters right.  Have my heart set on making a 20 sided box and bowl.    Attached is the eight sided one I just finished.  

Lewis Kauffman said:

Nice tight miters!!

SQ said:

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Lew Kauffman-
Wood Turners Forum Host

Time traveler. Purveyor of the world's finest custom rolling pins!

John,

As you suggested, I also planed all four sides of the board and you were right - it made a HUGE difference.  

SQ

SQ said:

Hi John,

Very good to see you and appreciate your response. Attached a picture of the miter gauge and sled I'm using. 

John Morris said:

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

well as usual I got to the party late.

Good to hear from you. Hope you will post some of your new boxes!

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Good to see you, again!

Nice miters. Glad you got it worked out. 

An aside: With your sled arrangement, you will not obtain the benefit of the "0" clearance insert. You would need a wider right side piece, so that you could cut through it. You could probably replace the right side with wider MDF, or phenolic covered Baltic Birch, of the matching thickness. With your present sled configuration, as your blade dulls a bit, you'll likely begin to see some bottom side tear out. 

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Gene
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

Gene,

Good to see you again, too.  

We actually have the other piece of the Incra Miter Express but didn't use it because we were using the fence to install a stop block.  Husband plans to router a dado and insert the red track where I show it sitting currently.  We are doing this so we have an adjustable stop block and have the benefit of using the second half of the Incra Miter Express.  Comments would be appreciated.  

SQ

Gene Howe said:

Good to see you, again!

Nice miters. Glad you got it worked out. 

An aside: With your sled arrangement, you will not obtain the benefit of the "0" clearance insert. You would need a wider right side piece, so that you could cut through it. You could probably replace the right side with wider MDF, or phenolic covered Baltic Birch, of the matching thickness. With your present sled configuration, as your blade dulls a bit, you'll likely begin to see some bottom side tear out. 

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Gene
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

John,

It's always good to hear from you.  I'd be more than happy to post some of these boxes and other items.    Right now planing the wood, so I'm a ways off from taking any pictures.  

SQ

John Moody said:

well as usual I got to the party late.

Good to hear from you. Hope you will post some of your new boxes!

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John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

It's always best if you can either use a backer block ( a stick of wood on the exit side of the workpiece) that will prevent splintering and blowout - or - make your pieces  thick enough that you can trim any blowout off  when final sizing.

Some species of wood blow out more than others. Some plywoods, like oak, are really bad that way and require scoring before cross cutting.

I've also known folks to use blue tape on the exit side of a piece to keep splintering down

Good ideas.  Thanks for the suggestions.  

SQ

Cliff said:

It's always best if you can either use a backer block ( a stick of wood on the exit side of the workpiece) that will prevent splintering and blowout - or - make your pieces  thick enough that you can trim any blowout off  when final sizing.

Some species of wood blow out more than others. Some plywoods, like oak, are really bad that way and require scoring before cross cutting.

I've also known folks to use blue tape on the exit side of a piece to keep splintering down

Awesome!!! I have run into that many times and it seems to always be a function of one end of the board not lying flat on the TS. Great to hear!

SQ said:

John,

As you suggested, I also planed all four sides of the board and you were right - it made a HUGE difference.  

SQ

SQ said:

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Happiness is wood chips flying!

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker
Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops and Wounded Warriors Project