Dear Patriot Woodworker's, we have a question poised by our own member Jennifer Alger. You may be asking then, why are you asking it Mr. John!

Well, Jenn is still a tad shy around here, and she is also a very busy young lady with Farwest Forest Products!

So here goes.

/profile/JenniferAlger?xg_source=profiles_memberList">We got some Madrone burl in and it had some amazing color.  We sold several pieces green to some woodworkers who made some amazing items out of it.  However the stuff we air dried has quite a few cracks splits and voids... although it is still very pretty.  I know there is a way to stabilize it, but we tried the boiling method, and really didn't like the way it changed the color. 

We have the opportunity to purchase another beautiful Madrone burl, but are a little gun shy as we don't know exactly how to stabilize it while maintaining the beautiful natural color. 

I have heard some very talented woodworkers say don't stabilize it... the movement of this wood is the beauty of it.   But I wanted to get some other feedback.

So there ya have it folks. I spoke with Jenn on the phone a couple days ago, and what they want to do is sell the Madrone, but they want more feed back on whether or not it's ok to sell it split and cracked. or would woodworkers prefer the Madrone nice and crack and split free?

Also, does anyone here have a grasp on the best way to dry Madrone meanwhile keeping it from splitting and cracking?

They have had great success drying other species of burls, but not the Madrone, it moves like crazy!

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

---

John Morris

The Patriot Woodworker

/forums/uploads/ning-image001-12069-97.jpg">

Haha... You are too kind John, thanks for posting.   I don't think I've ever been called shy before. My problem was more that there was soooo much on here, that I wasn't sure where to put it.  Thank you so much for posting and I look forward to any feedback anyone can provide.

Thanks - Jenn

Jennifer, I am not shy either but don't have a clue as how you should go about it.  Painting the open wood grain has been used by some folks but don't know if that method would work on Madrone.

---

Fred

aka Pop's Shop

www.pops-shop.com

'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'

Scroll Saw Forum Host

I just read an article on this. They suggested soaking it in alcohol and slow drying in sawdust. It will still move a lot but seems to stabilize it a bit more. I am not an expert on this subject, but love to learn new things. They also said when turning green to leave a lot of extra on the turning and dry in this manner. Once dried or stabilized return it to the final shape. I hope this helps some. Would love to see a picture of this. I am very new to turning and always eager to learn

---

Wayne Mahler

God bless and protect our troops that serve so we can be free.

Jenn, are we talking about turning size pieces or slabs? For turning size pieces you could try the DNA (Denatured Alcohol) method. You soak the piece in the DNA and it usually doesn't take but 24 hours or so depending on the thickness of the piece.

For slabs, I have no Idea. The kiln where I get my wood dried just said you have to really control how much moisture you take out and how fast. They don't like to mix thick slabs with thinner stock as it becomes harder to control the extraction rate of the moisture. If the moisture comes out too fast you will get the cracking and twisting.

I am only repeating what they told me as I just pay them to dry my wood.

---

John Moody

Site Administrator

John Moody Woodworks

http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Thanks for the input everyone.  It really is appreciated.Â

These are burl turning blocks, pen blanks and very small boards for crafts. Any burl that we have is coated as soon as it is cut with Mobilser, (similar to anchorseal). This slows the drying process way down as drying any wood to fast will cause it to move on you.   This is the same process that we use in other burl that we process; walnut, maple, redwood etc. and they all turn out fantastic.   However not so with the Madrone burl.Â

I have attached some photo's of the burl.. yes this is all from the same burl. The pink is when fresh cut prior to having any seal on the surface. When we milled it, this had been on the ground for a year and a half in our yard. Even then it had a very high MC.  After cutting it started to move almost immediately and we put the mobilser on all surfaces. Then put some in plastic to see how that worked and some just put in a cool dark place.  Â

It still moved quite a bit as can be seen in the third pic. We sold some of it green to a guy who makes trinket boxes and he put his in a toaster oven to finish drying it, (The lid to one of his boxes is in the pic).  Â

I've seen some Madrone on Ebay being advertised as stabilized and it doesn't have the cracks that you see in ours.Â

We tried pressure cooking as I'd heard that was the trick... but it has no color when done.Â

I will try the DNA method and see how that goes... Thanks for the TIP.Â

jenn

It looks beautiful. Wow!

---

John Moody

Site Administrator

John Moody Woodworks

http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

I thought it was beautiful too, until the cracking started as shown in the group pic. 

That was very disheartening.

do you recall where you read this article?  I know John also mentioned DNA, but I'm not sure if it will help now or if needed done when we first opened the burl up.   I guess we could have stuck with what we know and are good at... but where's the adventure in that right???

Wayne Mahler said:

I just read an article on this. They suggested soaking it in alcohol and slow drying in sawdust. It will still move a lot but seems to stabilize it a bit more. I am not an expert on this subject, but love to learn new things. They also said when turning green to leave a lot of extra on the turning and dry in this manner. Once dried or stabilized return it to the final shape. I hope this helps some. Would love to see a picture of this. I am very new to turning and always eager to learn

---

Wayne Mahler

God bless and protect our troops that serve so we can be free.

Jenn

I'll look and see if I can find it. If I do I'll post it in here. There were other replies most of them boiling it but since that was tried, this looked like it may have been an answer. I do know it showed up on a Google search. I'll look and keep this in mind.

A quick search and I found it. They still talk about the movement in the wood.

Maybe this will though

Madrone Burl Posting

Hope this helps some.

---

Wayne Mahler

God bless and protect our troops that serve so we can be free.

Jenn, that Madrone is beautiful. I can say this, if I were buying it, I would want to see it crack free personally, I'd like to be able to work it without having to work around a fissure size crack through it. But that's just me. It is absolutely beautiful lumber!!!

I also helped ya get your pictures to show up.

Here is a link explaining how to post photos in your discussions in the future!

/forum/topics/uploading-photos-to-a" target="_self">Posting Photos In Discussion

Jennifer Alger said:

Thanks for the input everyone.   It really is appreciated. 

These are burl turning blocks, pen blanks and very small boards for crafts.  Any burl that we have is coated as soon as it is cut with Mobilser, (similar to anchorseal).  This slows the drying process way down as drying any wood to fast will cause it to move on you.    This is the same process that we use in other burl that we process; walnut, maple, redwood etc.  and they all turn out fantastic.    However not so with the Madrone burl. 

I have attached some photo's of the burl.. yes this is all from the same burl.  The pink is when fresh cut prior to having any seal on the surface.  When we milled it, this had been on the ground for a year and a half in our yard.  Even then it had a very high MC.   After cutting it started to move almost immediately and we put the mobilser on all surfaces.  Then put some in plastic to see how that worked and some just put in a cool dark place.   

It still moved quite a bit as can be seen in the third pic.  We sold some of it green to a guy who makes trinket boxes and he put his in a toaster oven to finish drying it, (The lid to one of his boxes is in the pic).   

I've seen some Madrone on Ebay being advertised as stabilized and it doesn't have the cracks that you see in ours. 

We tried pressure cooking as I'd heard that was the trick... but it has no color when done. 

I will try the DNA method and see how that goes... Thanks for the TIP. 

jenn

/forum/attachment/download?id=5228218%3AUploadedFile%3A301942">/forum/attachment/download?id=5228218%3AUploadedFile%3A301943">/forum/attachment/download?id=5228218%3AUploadedFile%3A301944">

---

John Morris

The Patriot Woodworker

/forums/uploads/ning-image001-12075-26.jpg">

Thanks John! 

Ohhh that's purdy.

I'm curious though. Wood movement is my enemy, what circumstances would cause anyone to see it as a positive?

Jennifer,

Other than the DNA process, I'm at a loss, but I'm a huge fan of wood with voids, worm holes, cracks and knot holes. We call natures imperfections "design opportunities". 

Filled with epoxy and crushed stone like malachite or turquoise, (or many other different fillers) or just colored epoxy alone, will impart a whole new dimension to a plain box or turning.

Only suggesting this to you to use as a sales tool for your cracked, checked and "nasty" Madrone. 

Now, if you can't sell that nasty stuff, just send it my way. :-)

---

Gene

'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

haha..... thanks Gene.  We sell a lot of other woods, (wormy, spalted, etc) as "character" wood.  But I like your term "design opportunities".    The stuff with the cracks I have been holding back from putting on my sight because I was worried about it, but the feel I am getting from people I've been asking is that is the beauty of the unique madrone, and those who are light of heart should work with a different type of wood. 

Thank you so much for your input!

jenn

Hi Cliff,

From what I understand, they do it in a long progress... rough work it... then wrap in plastic for a while.. .then work it some more.... wrap in plastic.. .and so on until it stops moving.   But they love the cracks and voids and just fill them in some cases, and in others leave the voids.  If you look at the little bowl there, it is filled with glue.... and the trinket box lid is not filled, but the voids are left.  I know on the trinket box that the artist worked his and then at the end finish dried it in a toaster over before completing his project to ensure that it wouldn't move anymore.  Not very high tech I know.... but it worked...

Jenn