I'm re-posting this question from the "introduce yourself" section, in case there are additional folks that are knowledgeable about hand cranked grinders who frequent the hand tools section of the site.  I'm writing a children's' book that will highlight the main important steps in wooden boat building.   It's not written like a boat building instructional manual, but rather will pick and choose the steps that children will find most interesting. 

For example, I am having his father start out by showing him how to polish and sharpen the tools.  I've done quite a bit of research on hand cranked grinders of this time period and think it might make sense for a father to start teaching his son how to use one by replacing the grinding wheel with a soft muslin wheel and using that to clean/polish the metal parts of his hand tools.

So hypothetically, if either the tools had become a bit dirty/rusty and/or if he wanted to show his son how to use a hand grinder in a non dangerous (to the tools and him) way, would it work to replace the grinding wheel on the crank with a muslin wheel, soak the muslin with coal oil, and clean the tools by spinning the crank and running all of the metal parts of the tool across the wheel?

Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated!

You'll need a grit in there to clean the tools and "polish" them.  Coal tar alone won't remove rust.

Grinding wheels came in different grits from coarse to fine but usually the hand crank wheels were finer grit than machine driven wheels.  Quite a few also were "Wet" wheels meaning they pulled up water from the bottom of a trough to keep the metal on the chisels and planes cool  while being ground.

Muslin wheels are usually in a "bank" (grouped on one axle) and you only used 1 grit of Rouge (that's what they call the polishing compound) on each wheel.  The Rouge on the wheel does the polishing.   (look up jewelers rouge/polishing wheels for more info, alot still use them)

Coal tar would be wiped over the chisels after the blades were wiped down to remove any rouge to protect them as the polishing removes any surface oil protecting the metal.

Thanks Dragon1 so much for the info!

I've been trying to decide what age hand cranked grinder my character would be using and have narrowed it down to one from 1900 (first pic) or one from 1920 (second pic). Would you have any perspective on whether an average boatbuilder in 1937 would likely have a 10+ year old grinder like from the 1920's or an even older one from 1900? How expensive were these for the average woodworker of that era? Would it be common to keep one of the older ones in working order for over 30 years if well taken care of? Would an average woodworker be able to make improvements or fix the workings?

Possibly, a boat builder might need a unit like one of these pedal powered units. Faster, with a better stone for sharpening. It leaves both hands free to control the blade and, once you get it spinning, it will spin on it's own for a few minutes. Just need to pedal it every so often.

Don't think that these are of the appropriate age, though.

Having used one of these (much older) to sharpen hoes, axes, knives, scissors etc. I can attest to their ease of use. 

Ours had a water bath under the wheel and was retrofitted with an old tractor seat. 

---

Gene
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

I think they would have kept it clean and used it even if it was 30 years old, especially if it had been passed down through the generations. Most hand tool woodworkers take special pride in keeping the tools clean and sharp to get the best use of them. A lot of the ones used today by many are well over 30 years old. So if the grinder wheel was still large enough and not worn down, then yes I think it would have been possible.

Even give a little more to the story if his father is telling how the hand grinder was passed down from his father and one day it would be the sons to care for and keep in the family.

---

John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

the top one has another space to the left for a muslin wheel.

Valarie Farnham said:

Thanks Dragon1 so much for the info!

I've been trying to decide what age hand cranked grinder my character would be using and have narrowed it down to one from 1900 (first pic) or one from 1920 (second pic). Would you have any perspective on whether an average boatbuilder in 1937 would likely have a 10+ year old grinder like from the 1920's or an even older one from 1900? How expensive were these for the average woodworker of that era? Would it be common to keep one of the older ones in working order for over 30 years if well taken care of? Would an average woodworker be able to make improvements or fix the workings?

Hi everyone,

  It's Val the children's writer again. I’ve ordered a small hand crank grinder on eBay and will now do some experiments with cleaning, polishing, sharpening and honing tools. In my book "George" has an old box of second hand tools that were pretty grungy and needed some work. He stored them away until he could start teaching his son the important skills of keeping the tools clean, polished, sharpened and honed. I will experiment with my grinder in cleaning a tool (chisel) first, second I will reshape and sharpen on the grinder and then I will follow up with a sharpening stone for some further sharpening and honing. I've watched a teacher online give a demonstration on honing and sharpening a chisel using both the hand grinder and then the sharpening stone. I found his technique fascinating when he made a bevel and then an extra bevel at the tip of the chisel using the sharpening stone. I know that polishing the chisel on the muslin wheel dulls the sharpness of the chisel.

p.s.

I am going to go step by step in the order that would be most effective when I use the grinder and the sharpening stone.

4) So my question of the day is:

  Is it alright to clean and polish the tool first then sharpen and hone the tool? I'm assuming the tool would get a little dirty in the process of sharpening but I want to know if at that point I could just wipe it down. 

  Second question of the day is:

  The grinder I bought is very small I’m gonna repeat my experiment with a much larger grinder once I find one online. Do you recommend any procedures or any info that might help my experiment?

 Valarie Farnham

Here's more in depth detail about my fictional character Joseph's father George the "boat wright."

Pa had made a good living as a Boat wright before the depression, not enough to be wealthy but enough to feed his family and continue doing the trade he loved. Due to the profession there wasn’t always work offered to individual boat builders so his money had to last and luxuries were not something he wasted his money on. It was important to him to keep the DeLorm family trade alive and well, for his father and grandfather both built boats their entire lives. George had inherited some of his tools from his pa; he made some tools himself and repaired and reused tools people no longer wanted. It was also not uncommon to borrow machinery from people he knew. It was not often but there were times after he got a commission he would invest in a few special tools. Pa and ma did not need a lot of luxuries they lived in a way that many even in this time did not live. They were not city folk; they had store bought food like everyone else but they ate muskrat and fish from the bay and deer when pa went hunting with his brothers. They had one nice suit for pa and one nice dress for ma for special occasions and one nice outfit for Joseph but fashion was not a concern. Patching up overalls or pants was something ma did without thinking and new clothes were bought or made when clothes could no longer be patched or worn. When the depression hit times got hard and food got scarce but pa held onto those tools as long as he could. If he lost his tools he might not be able to continue boat building again and that he could not bear. Now pa was finally able to teach his son the DeLorm trade, he would be thorough like his father had been, he would start him out slow and things Joseph was too young to do he would let him observe and learn.

Nice grinder Valarie.  Let me tackle the 1st question from the first person perspective.  If I were doing it, I would absolutely clean and polish the tools first to remove and grime that might imbed the grinding wheel or polishing.  I'd wipe it down with mineral spirits (coal oil in your case) lightly buff it, sharpen, and then re-buff it.

Just me speaking. 
 
Valarie Farnham said:

Hi everyone,

  It's Val the children's writer again. I’ve ordered a small hand crank grinder on eBay and will now do some experiments with cleaning, polishing, sharpening and honing tools. In my book "George" has an old box of second hand tools that were pretty grungy and needed some work. He stored them away until he could start teaching his son the important skills of keeping the tools clean, polished, sharpened and honed. I will experiment with my grinder in cleaning a tool (chisel) first, second I will reshape and sharpen on the grinder and then I will follow up with a sharpening stone for some further sharpening and honing. I've watched a teacher online give a demonstration on honing and sharpening a chisel using both the hand grinder and then the sharpening stone. I found his technique fascinating when he made a bevel and then an extra bevel at the tip of the chisel using the sharpening stone. I know that polishing the chisel on the muslin wheel dulls the sharpness of the chisel.

p.s.

I am going to go step by step in the order that would be most effective when I use the grinder and the sharpening stone.

4) So my question of the day is:

  Is it alright to clean and polish the tool first then sharpen and hone the tool? I'm assuming the tool would get a little dirty in the process of sharpening but I want to know if at that point I could just wipe it down. 

  Second question of the day is:

  The grinder I bought is very small I’m gonna repeat my experiment with a much larger grinder once I find one online. Do you recommend any procedures or any info that might help my experiment?

 Valarie Farnham

Yes definitely clean before sharpening. Not only does it keep grit and grime off the fringing wheel, but it is safer and easier to hold, control and see what you are doing when the tool is clean.

---

John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

yes clean and polish, then grind and hone.  

The process your talking about with useing the stone for the final "bevel" is called "hollow grinding" where the steel is removed by the wheel in a curve the same as the shape of the wheel, then the front edge is "honed" to sharp.

This makes it easier to use a stone and "touch up" the cutting edge when it gets dull because there is way less metal to remove to get it sharp.

Here are a few grinders I ran across this weekend at a few Flea Markets.

This one was patented in 1866

And this small hand unit.

---

John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

That last one looks like and old sharpener used for hay cutting blades.

Could be Mike, I had never seen one like it but I never had to sharpen any hay cutting blades. It just looked interesting.

dragon1 said:

That last one looks like and old sharpener used for hay cutting blades.

I thought I already sent this message but not sure so I sent it again.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for those images of hand grinders I’ve ordered another grinder because the first one I received was too small to do my experiment. I will send new pictures of the one that’s on its way and I will have more questions on hand grinders soon. Right now I have an urgent question for John, dragon1 and anyone who would like to answer. I’ve found a Vintage Boat Builder's Caulking Iron Chisel, various caulking Iron’s, Iron gouges and a few Iron chisels in my research online. It was discussed earlier that George the boat wright in my book would’ve gotten some tools from his father and even made some tools himself for boat building. If he got some of the tools from his father would it be out of touch to assume that some of those tools could be Iron tools and not Steel tools? I know that steel is Iron but in my research I find that even though steel tools were more common it was also more expensive and I was wondering would there be tools made out of Iron or mostly Iron in my character’s possession? I was interviewing someone online recently who stated that no American wood

craftsman wood have used Iron tools! He stated that only steel tools have been used in America since the 16^th century. But I found information in my research that seems to dispute his statement.  So if George made some of the tools himself and also inherited some tools from his father could some of these tools be made entirely out of Iron such as Cast Iron or Pig Iron as they used to call it? The year my book takes place is 1935 but the tools George inherited would be a lot older than that. I hope you will all help me answer this question as I continue researching the history of Iron, blacksmiths during colonial times and Iron tools.

Sincerely,

Valarie Farnham

John Moody said:

Here are a few grinders I ran across this weekend at a few Flea Markets.

This one was patented in 1866

And this small hand unit.

---

John Moody
Site Administrator


John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Hi, here's a picture of my new hand cranked grinder, a little small with a 2.5 in grinding wheel. 

Tomorrow, I'm to receive a Vintage Carborundum Niagara Falls Hand Crank Bench Grinder Sharpener with a 6" Stone.  The small one I just got turns really smoothly but the bolt holding the grinding stone to the arbor is pretty rusty.  The Niagara grinder coming tomorrow is supposed to be really smooth and the bolt able to unscrew to release the grinding stone as I'm looking to do and replace with a muslin wheel.  I also like that it has screws holding the casing that can be removed to view, clean, and lubricate the gears if necessary. 

Here's a picture of the Vintage Boat Builder's Caulking Iron Chisel that I found and was talking about.

When I was young, a friend's parents hand one like the first picture. It was really cool to try and sharpen hatchets and axes on it.

Valarie Farnham said:

I thought I already sent this message but not sure so I sent it again.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for those images of hand grinders I’ve ordered another grinder because the first one I received was too small to do my experiment. I will send new pictures of the one that’s on its way and I will have more questions on hand grinders soon. Right now I have an urgent question for John, dragon1 and anyone who would like to answer. I’ve found a Vintage Boat Builder's Caulking Iron Chisel, various caulking Iron’s, Iron gouges and a few Iron chisels in my research online. It was discussed earlier that George the boat wright in my book would’ve gotten some tools from his father and even made some tools himself for boat building. If he got some of the tools from his father would it be out of touch to assume that some of those tools could be Iron tools and not Steel tools? I know that steel is Iron but in my research I find that even though steel tools were more common it was also more expensive and I was wondering would there be tools made out of Iron or mostly Iron in my character’s possession? I was interviewing someone online recently who stated that no American wood

craftsman wood have used Iron tools! He stated that only steel tools have been used in America since the 16^th century. But I found information in my research that seems to dispute his statement.  So if George made some of the tools himself and also inherited some tools from his father could some of these tools be made entirely out of Iron such as Cast Iron or Pig Iron as they used to call it? The year my book takes place is 1935 but the tools George inherited would be a lot older than that. I hope you will all help me answer this question as I continue researching the history of Iron, blacksmiths during colonial times and Iron tools.

Sincerely,

Valarie Farnham

John Moody said:

Hi again everyone,

I think I now found my answer. I wanted to know were there tools with more Iron than steel in them? Many objects were made of a combination of wrought Iron and the more expensive steel. The union of soft Iron and hardened steel would greatly extend the life of the blade and would often allow it to outlast several generations of users. By the late 18^th century “Cast Steel†was being used for cutlery and chisels.

I still would like to hear any info on this topic it interests me greatly.

Valarie