A good article by a friend of mine: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2020/05/13/fair-enough

 

I remember many years ago reading a comment by someone else about competing with the "hobbyist" for products.   The comment was that someone who did not have a grasp on time, material, overhead and profit just produced stuff "for fun."   The result was an excess of product to be gotten rid of at any price.   

 

I've also heard many times about people who "just want to cover their material and save a little for a new tool some day,"  who really have no idea of the the costs that go into making a product for sale.

Thanks! Great article and something I think we all struggle with.

 

For me, I find your location/economic market has a lot to do with pricing. What I charge for a rolling pin around here would be considered very inexpensive for my brother in California or friends in New York City. 

 

Also, when making "one off" pieces, I'll often let the customer set the price, especially when the piece was made from stuff I already had. They always are more generous than I would ever ask.

 

To help me determine the pricing of larger projects, I wrote a spreadsheet that does all the calculations mentioned in the article you posted. Judging from the number of Internet requests to use it, lots of folks struggle with how to price their work.

I've thought a lot about this over the years from a hobbyist's perspective having sold a few custom items over the years.  It seems to me that there are market classes (for lack of a better description) that come into play . 

 

It's pretty hard to sell a hand crafted $1000 solid oak item to a group that is more attracted to the 89.99 particle board version stamped out in a factory overseas.  Rare is the buyer that wants the $1000 version and connecting the maker to that buyer seems like an impossibility. 

 

On the other hand, making 100 whirligigs to sell at a craft show has a pretty good chance of leaving me with 90 of them to store until the next show.

 

For the professionals, how do you handle 1) commissioned work and 2) making stuff on spec?

 

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I’m not a professional, don’t even play one on TV, but for making stuff to specifications I draw everything out with Sketchup. I can show folks what they are going to get in 3D for their approval 

A long time ago, I spent most of a week making a bunch of Shaker boxes and baskets for a craft show.   It was really the wrong audience.   People were looking for the $2-4 items.   I'd spent almost an hour on each box prepping the wood, cutting, assembly, and finish.   I ended up selling just a couple of them and barely covered my entrance fee.   Enough of that.  There were several other booths there, one had stained glass artwork.  I imagine they were in the same situation.

Some of the "crafters" around here have gone to buying finished Chinese made crafts and taking the made in China labels off.  They don't have any time in their product and sell cheaper than those that do.

Interestingly, the items I sell in a show around here will draw about 50% more in my Etsy store.  The vast majority of my online sales are going to the east or west coasts.  After doing this for a few years I learned to price my items  fairly but not extravagantly.  The feedback of producing quality items draws a whole lot of business and I’m approaching 300 sales on Etsy.

 

Sales here are mostly smaller items at 20 and under. Like Lew said not a market for high ticket items , but there are exceptions and I will sell a $120 or 90 bowl and get that good feeling. As to how to price items with turning it is mostly labor and maybe the price of kits such as pizza cutters and ice cream scoops. I do have one item that the parts cost less than 2 and I sell for 18 but for that you have to have something no one else has and then you have to talk the item.

     My problems for pricing do not have a formula. I started out selling 5 years ago at much lower prices than I have now. By the way once you create a "name " for yourself you can then also charge for your reputation.

Eleventy billion. 
 

I’ve written posts on this topic previously too. 
 

I’m retired. My bills are paid. I don’t need the work nor the headache. So I can give it away, or only charge for materials if I like you. Or I can name any price if you’re a stranger and I’d really not bother with the hassle you’re likely to give over the next 8 weeks. 
 

that table there?  Yeah, it’ll take about 6 weeks, how much do you make in 6 weeks. You’re asking me to give you my time. I want to be paid for that interruption of my peace. 

Very few get to the point where they can charge based on their reputation. It takes years and a lot of effort. The internet has helped but it’s still a long shot. You meet people occasionally that build up a market for a specific item like cutting boards but then it turns into a grind. Once that happens the pleasure of the art is gone. 
Paul

The whole point of retirement is that I don’t track my shop time, and I only work there when it makes me happy. 

9 hours ago, DAB said:

I’m retired. My bills are paid. I don’t need the work nor the headache. 

Ditto! 

On occasion, I'll take a commision. But, only if it's going to be fun. I don't consider those types of deals as selling. As to how I price my work, I need to make $100 an hour shop time, plus any sub work and, any esoteric materials/hardware the customer specifies. Long ago, I quit making stuff on spec. The time and effort involved in the business of selling isn't worth it...to me. And, I certainly don't derive any pleasure from the processes. I'm selfish with my time.

Edited June 30, 20214 yr by Gene Howe

That was a great read Keith, thanks so much for sharing that link, Nancy is a highly respected woodworker. So many opinions on this subject, and this was one of the better ones in my opinion.

9 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Ditto! 

On occasion, I'll take a commision. But, only if it's going to be fun. I don't consider those types of deals as selling. As to how I price my work, I need to make $100 an hour shop time, plus any sub work and, any esoteric materials/hardware the customer specifies. Long ago, I quit making stuff on spec. The time and effort involved in the business of selling isn't worth it...to me. And, I certainly don't derive any pleasure from the processes. I'm selfish with my time.

 exactly.

 

several years ago, had my old company contact me, they wanted me to attend a public meeting locally (in NM, they are HQ in NH), so it would have cost them $$$ to fly someone out here.  how much would you charge?  $125/hr, same as I pay my plumber.  long, long pause....but it's just a meeting.  yes, a meeting that i'll attend as an expert on the subject matter, or you can fly someone out here.  uh.....can we cap your hours worked?  sure.  hour to get there, hour to get home, hour for the meeting, hour to write up a summary, that's 4 hours - $500.....uh....ok.

 

they never called again, which is fine with me.  had to cancel a dentist appt that day.  you people are interrupting my life, so you can pay for that privilege.

 

i've had others ask me how long some project took, in hours in the shop.  I have no idea, i don't have a time clock down there, and I don't record my comings and goings from MY shop.  I only answer to my wife, who has first call on all my life, including shop time.

1 hour ago, DAB said:

 

 

i've had others ask me how long some project took, in hours in the shop.  I have no idea, i don't have a time clock down there, and I don't record my comings and goings from MY shop.  I only answer to my wife, who has first call on all my life, including shop time.

 

 

I think the subject was if you sell how would you price it and things got off subject. At one time I too had that feeling if I sell it becomes a job. Well I sell and it does not feel like a job yet, but I don't sell that much. Most of my sales are associated with woodturning club events and we use it to promote the club also. So my selling has an ulterior motive besides making money.