Guys, I've never used Watco Danish Oil, probably never will (I mix my own wiping varnish), but I see it getting high praise all the time; particularly the tinted versions. Now, I have used Polyshades (many, many years ago before I knew better) and it came out looking like a dog's breakfast....or worse. Seems to me that the danish oil would do the same, after all it's simply varnish with a color. Does that not happen with the Watco? According to Flexner, the Watco is simply very thin varnish. I do remember it was a high quality alkyd varnish (from somewhere, maybe they changes) instead of the urethane in Polyshades which probably helps....but it still seems like the color would streak. Maybe Watco uses a dye (more uniform dissolution) instead of a stain????

Fred, I use Watco Danish with high success, it's fool proof in my opinion, and no there are no streaks, even if you tried you could not streak it. It's a very enjoyable wiping finish, just like the formulas you would make off the bench, but hey, it's ready to go when needed.

35 minutes ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

According to Flexner, the Watco is simply very thin varnish.

It is, but like I said, it's ready to go, and as you know you can purchase it in differing shades. I like the convenience of always having it ready and in a can, yes we could make our own, and I have and probably still will in the future, but I do love the Watco!

 

Polyshades I never have used, because fortunately I learned from all you guys who tried it "once".

I use it to seal the waffle trivets that I sell.  I use the natural and it works well but I tried the cherry tinted version and it was a train wreck.  I had a little sap wood on some cherry trivets and the tint color was awful plus it blotched. 

16 minutes ago, Ron Dudelston said:

plus it blotched

Hey Ron, sometimes Cherry blotches with any finish, was that the issue possibly?

Watco mixed with a good oil based varnish, at varying ratios, makes an excellent wipe on finish for the hardwoods I use. On softer woods like pine or poplar, it tends to blotch. Same with cherry. Sanding sealer first helps. I like a strong mix of Dark Walnut Watco and varnish for the first coat on open grained wood like red oak. And, it really helps even out color variations on walnut. Mesquite doesn't care what you slosh on it. 

Like any DIY finish mixtures, some experimentation is a good thing. 

Edited October 31, 20196 yr by Gene Howe

I forgot to mention a great product from Charles Neal. It does work on cherry, as well as other blotch prone woods.

Wood Conditioner

5 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

I forgot to mention a great product from Charles Neal. It does work on cherry, as well as other blotch prone woods.

Wood Conditioner

A few years back Charles sent me a couple test bottles of his conditioner, worked great!

3 minutes ago, John Morris said:

A few years back Charles sent me a couple test bottles of his conditioner, worked great!

Charles' prep and finishing techniques are outstanding. Have you seen his "Trace Coat" demos? The guy is a wealth of info and, not only with finishing. 

50 minutes ago, John Morris said:

Hey Ron, sometimes Cherry blotches with any finish, was that the issue possibly?

You are correct about cherry blotching but the blotching wasn’t the main weakness.  That can be controlled.  The pale pink color was really bad.  Kinda looked like I spilled cherry koolaid on the wood.

19 minutes ago, Ron Dudelston said:

You are correct about cherry blotching but the blotching wasn’t the main weakness.  That can be controlled.  The pale pink color was really bad.  Kinda looked like I spilled cherry koolaid on the wood.

Ron, have you ever tried an iron acitate soution? 

 

41 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

Ron, have you ever tried an iron acitate soution? 

 

Not yet.  

Last time I looked at Watco's SDS (and it's been through a number of owners*)   It was roughly
6 parts mineral spirits

2 parts boiled linseed oil

1 part varnish

 

So it's a very thin, very oily, oil-varnish blend.

 

Before I knew much about finishing, a friend told me to dump in some more varnish.   This made it more varnishy (is that a word) and provided a bit of a film-forming finish.   For a number of years in my budding woodworking career, that was a finish that worked for me, I liked the look, so I stuck with it.  That seems to be the norm -- woodworkers in frustration find something that works and use it for everything (witness Minwax poly).

 

At that time Watco only came in untinted and "walnut."    The walnut versions were made by adding tar (bitumate) that is not exactly a dye  and not exactly a pigment, but was dissolved/thinned by the mineral spirits.   I used that on a couple of pine things and it worked fine.

 

I suspect that the current versions have some sort of dye in them that's more transparent than the puke colored Polyshades.   The fact that it gets wiped on and wiped off reduces the chance that it will be that mess that Polyshades gets when it is on thick.

Do you infer I don't like Polyshades?

 

* Watco was off the market for a while because some dummy didn't properly dispose of his rags, burnt his house down and sued for damages.

Interesting. Have to try some and see how it does. You are right though. I stick with the couple of finishes I am familiar with.

I know the formula has changed back and forth between a danish oil (with BLO) to a wiping varnish (no BLO) from time to time, no idea what the current stuff is. I guess if I had some I could test it...the latest I could find from Flexner said it was wiping varnish, but keeping up with the changes is getting tricky. One thing that has stayed steady is the very high amount of mineral spirits that's in it.

Turners love Watco. I did not like the tinted . No problem on cherry but I do not care for it too much on oak reason being oak needs more coats. On most woods a good soak on the first coat and wipe off the residual after about 15 min then another coat before I leave the shop . Usually that is enough to buff out in two days. You can add more but if you put too much on gets sticky.

 

As to blotching I have found on turnings we deal with woods that are not necessarily uniform. Spault and because of curve in turnings we get end grain in several places. Even with all the variables in turned objects a uniform color is not the object but a even finish is and I find in most cases Watco does it.

1 hour ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

 One thing that has stayed steady is the very high amount of mineral spirits that's in it.

Yep, 2/3 of what you pay for evaporates away.

The current (?, 2008) Watco Danish Oil SDS shows various solvents at 60,5,5,and 5%  so now 75% solvents.   You generally have to sort out what they are by the CAS (Chemical Abstracts Service) number because one chemical can have a dozen different names, e.g., "aromatic petroleum distillates" (aka naphtha, Aromatic 100), but only one CAS number.  That and some of them hide behind "trade secret" or "proprietary" as if any decent finish chemist couldn't figure it out with a few hours work.

 

And just because it appears to have a new owner, many of the common brand names are owned by the same big dozen or so finish companies.   Rustoleum is a division of RPM, as are Zinsser, Varathane, Testors, Mohawk, etc

 

Bob Flexner cuts through a lot of the misleading labels and shows you how to tell if it's a thin varnish or an oil-varnish blend.   I tell people the more wrinkles on the dried puddle, the higher percentage oil vs. varnish.

 

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use/

 

 

And you wonder why people are so bewildered by finishing, find something that works for them and put their head in a bushel basket and use it for everything.

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Gerald said:

 You can add more but if you put too much on gets sticky.

 

That's the wrinkles in the puddle.   You cannot build a film with an oil finish.   Well, you can, but it will be sticky.  I did a job for a woman who faithfully "teak oiled" her teak furniture every year.   The result was a sticky mess that attracted lint, dog hair and your finger tips would stick to it.

Yeah, that article was my reference for calling it wiping varnish, but I have seen earlier references by him (Flexner) that referred to it as an oil/varnish mix. I can't seem to locate that at the moment.

50 minutes ago, kmealy said:

You cannot build a film with an oil finish.

But you can with today's Watch correct Keith?

Because I have been using it for my chairs and building a very nice finish on my chairs. 

I used General Finishes Gel Coat too, I kind of go back n forth between the two. I find Watco friendlier to use, but GF I can create a nice deep layered finish quicker. 

On 10/31/2019 at 1:24 PM, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

Yeah, that article was my reference for calling it wiping varnish, but I have seen earlier references by him (Flexner) that referred to it as an oil/varnish mix. I can't seem to locate that at the moment.

Oil Finishes_ Their History and Use _ Popular Woodworking Magazine.pdf