After the kitchen remodeling was completed 9/2017, my wife was wanting new bar stools.  She had a few design specifications:

1) The back of the stool had to fit under the overhang of the counter top (34-1/2”max back support height).

2) The distance between the front of the stool and the top of the foot support had to be a comfortable distance (16-1/2” max).

3) The distance between the back support and the front of the seat had to be a comfortable distance.

                4) The stool had to swivel and return back to the original position when not occupied.

 

Upon a thorough search of the internet and my ~25 year collection of Wood and Woodsmith magazines I could not find an article for a wooden swivel bar stool.  The following inspired my own design:

1) Swivel bar stool plan from Woodcraft (plan was for a 30” seat height, padded cushion, and did not have design appeal)

                2) Bar stool project from Wood magazine (plan was for a non-swivel stool)

                3) Library chair designed by Tom Mc Laughlin.

                4) Stool seat power carving by Mario Rodriguez.

 

The prototype stool is made from 4/4 poplar wood with no finish.  The production stools will be made from cherry wood and the finish schedule will be the same as used for the kitchen cabinets.  The initial plan is to make two stools.    

 

Now the prototype stool is complete, minus finish.  My wife would like the seat to be 1” higher from the floor, have the lower stretchers raised 1”, and to have the legs cut with a compound angle so that there is no gap at the top of leg with the swivel mounting board.

 

I may want to inlay copper metal into the lower foot support.  The intent with the inlay metal is to provide a wear plate/bar which should help with the wear of the lower horizontal supports due to the abrasion from shoes.

 

I would like your input into the following:

1)      The back support braces are made with a bridle joint.  Do I need to add dowels to this joint? If I need to add dowels, how do I do it and have “face grain” showing instead of “end grain”?  Each tang is only 3/8” wide.

2)      The prototype utilizes pocket screws to secure the legs to the upper horizontal rail.  Should I change the joints to loose tendon joints?

3)       The lower stretchers use 2-1/2” construction screws to attach the legs to the stretchers.  Is this a good method or should I use a different joint?  If so, what?

4)       

I would appreciate your comments before I start the fabrication of the production stools.  Thanks

Danl

 

I have been thinking about making a shop stool for some time now, and I like your design. Maybe you could put a 1" riser between the seat and the swivel. Or if I was extending the legs, I would dowel an extension or a 1" ball from the craft store onto the bottom of each leg, that would automatically raise the stretchers 1".

Did you use Mario's method to scorp the seat?

 

 

Herb

nicely done Dan...

beautiful execution...

 

6 hours ago, Danl said:

 

I would like your input into the following:

1)      The back support braces are made with a bridle joint.  Do I need to add dowels to this joint? If I need to add dowels, how do I do it and have “face grain” showing instead of “end grain”?  Each tang is only 3/8” wide.

2)      The prototype utilizes pocket screws to secure the legs to the upper horizontal rail.  Should I change the joints to loose tendon joints?

3)       The lower stretchers use 2-1/2” construction screws to attach the legs to the stretchers.  Is this a good method or should I use a different joint?  If so, what?

 

1)   this is a bridal joint as I know it...  I believe you have a M&T...

pinning this joint w/ dowels this works well...  an M&T under duress... maybe not so much...

the shoulders add a lot of strength...

 

   

 

you could ''shoulder the joint and lessen the radius or change it to a thumb nail style profile to gain material at the intersection...

 

 

another is thicken your material at the RTA joint, taper the back rest supports from joint to to back rest on either both sides of the support or only on one side..

you know this strengthening  will be all aesthetics to your wife's happiness...

 

2)  I'm an advocate of M&T's here...

proven design on chairs and tables for eons...

add braces/brackets/blocks to the apron/leg joint...

 

 

 

or go hyper...

 

 

3)  M&T... another proven method for eons...

 

excellent idea on the copper protector...

nice touch/accent...

Edited January 18, 20188 yr by Stick486

Good looking stool. Stick's suggestions are excellent. Agree that the copper is a swell idea. 

this style bridal joint...

retain all of the shoulders...

through dowel the joint... placement of one is an easy decision...

if you place the dowels (2) off set them from one another so they won't be in the same ray/grain line of either member making for a stronger joint that's less prone to splitting/cracking....

 

 

 

on the free end invert a thumbnail profile...

ya know...

your prototype is so nice you should be able to get top dollar for it most any place....

danl, that is a nice looking design you came up with.  Have you spent some time sitting at the counter to assess it comfort-wise?

The following pic shows a mock-up of the bridle joint.  The mock-up purposely only uses a lap joint and is held with screws but the screw location is where I thought I may add the dowels.

 

The lower stretcher is only 1" x 1-1/2".  Not much material to make a tenon.  Perhaps I could make a tenon and add a dowel.  Then the dowels would complement each other.

 

I believe using a tenon joint at the upper support rail would be straight forward.  The support rail is 1-1/2" x 3".  Plenty of matl thickness for a tenon.  Only issue is that I have never made a M&T joint.  This could be a 1st.

Danl

 

Nicely done Dan.  I like it.

Dadio, I thought about adding a 1" riser but then the swivel mechanism may be more visible and it is not appealing to look at.  I still thinking of a design change to help hide the mechanism.  I want to use a different chair glide which will be not as high, so I have to raise the seat height more than 1".  I believe I will remake the legs and make them longer.  Another mock-up and prototype of the base assemble maybe on order.  I did use Mario's method for scooping the seat but I made significant changes.  Mario's follower is a length which makes his pommel approx. 1/2 the distance of his seat blank.  I made mine so that it was adjustable from 9" down to 5".  My final length is 5".  Also, I believe Mario's only scoops 1/4".  My seat blank starts with 5/16" and goes to 9/16".  I think I will make the production seats using 5/16" to 1/2".  Thank you for the input.

 

Stick & Gene, thank you for the help.  I'm still scratching my head to get answers.  Appreciate it.

 

Cal, Yes we have been using the prototype stool.  My said that she wanted it taller, knowing that it would make it harder for her to get on it.  The back support will still clear the counter top with the added height without a design change to the back support braces.  Thanks

 

HandyDan, thanks

 

Danl

Edited January 18, 20188 yr by Danl

Could you make the base thicker and cut a cavity for the swivel mechanism? Or, make a thinner sub base and cut out for the mechanism. The sub base would wouldn't need to be the same dimension as the present base. It would surround the mechanism and set on the present base.

I won't comment on my recommendations for the way I try to describe anything I would have six or eight pages full of chadder.

  Our last two houses had swivel bar stools, actually swivel chairs on rollers. They were chair height.  The swivel wheels did not discolor the floor and wife really liked them for that. We could sit at the bar, counter, and watch TV so this is where we sat almost anytime we were in the house.

  I sure miss those two arrangements and am thinking I will add the necessary changes to the island we have here. 

Our swivel chairs we called them reminded me of them when I saw you design... Ours had 2 more uprights connecting the seat to the lean to. And the extra strength caused by them kept all joints tight..

   We had young kids at those times so the chair height swivel chairs we better suited for young kids.. Not as far to fall if they got careless...

I agree with Gene to add a layer to the bottom of seat around the swivel to hide it. This is done on lazy susans to hide the bearing. However you will still have to deal with the visible joint of chair to base and the height of the foot support.

  I think the bridal joint is too weak for the back. Think Stick is right to go full M&T at that joint. Also the support of the back under the seat...is it glued and screwed?

  That dovetail joint for the legs would be a very strong choice. Remember the leg joint gets almost or more stress than the back rest.

   Good design and once you make the corrections I am sure SWMBO will be pleased.

   Are you going to stain or use natural color?

nice work.

 

i may have to borrow some of those details some day.

2 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Could you make the base thicker and cut a cavity for the swivel mechanism? Or, make a thinner sub base and cut out for the mechanism. The sub base would wouldn't need to be the same dimension as the present base. It would surround the mechanism and set on the present base.

I think the problem with a cutout is that his swivel has a 15 degree tilt to it.   That would make it tricky  to provide clearance all around.    The ones I've seen have a collar (for lack of a better term) below the seat.  Most of them have upholstered/padded seats.   IMO, collar on a windsor-style seat doesn't look all that good. 

 

BTW, it's "bridle" joint, like on a horse, not "bridal" joint, like on a newlywed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridle_joint

 

Also, FWIW, the standard dining chair seat is +-18" off the floor, and the standard dining table top is 30" off the  floor.   So the difference between seat and countertop height should be about 12"

 

Edited January 18, 20188 yr by kmealy