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I'm the last guy to say something good about Oneida


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due to may experiences with my cyclone (which they made). But I just got the current issue of PWW and noticed a teaser on the cover for this gizmo. Megan Fitzpatrick reviews it and claims it works...which would be a first for this type of attachment (IME). But it's cheap enough that if I ever get a shop to work in some day, I intend to buy one. Which is the real problem for me, since I've sworn Oneida will never get another nickel of my money. Maybe I can find a used one by then. Anyway, this may solve the unsolvable problem of dust collection in a hand held router. My belief is that Megan is a fairly straight shooter so for the moment I'll take her word that it works as advertised.

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Fred, I wasn't aware that you were disappointed with Oneida. I knew you had one and were switching to a Clear Vue ? What happened ? I respected Oneida because they are American made with Baldor motors, but disappointed with them because they don't seem to get much more in their heads other then cyclones. Accessories such as dust hoods were missing.

Edited by CharlieL
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Charlie, I've went over this so many times I wish I had boilerplated the story so I could cut and paste. Mine (which is now for sale down  the classifieds) started off with some minor things (like not fitting the wall bracket) to a really big problem (motor undersized, it was drawing too many amps with just one gate open) all of which I solved. The motor thing was the most expensive, I bought a replacement, upsizing the motor from the factory 2 HP Baldor to a 5HP Leeson. That one won't be overloaded! The last problem was the separation. I found the separation of the finest dust to be so poor, I had to out a gauge on the cyclone so I could monitor when the filter needed cleaning (Oneida also sells such a device). If I was running a marathon session on my drum sander, I could actually see the gauge readings climb as I worked. Oneida caught me complaining on a forum and offered to help me solve the problem. I Wound up talking to a fellow named Bill Witter (the founder). At his request I sent him 1) a sketch of my layout including tool descriptions and duct sizes 2) a sample of the fine dust (more in a moment) 3) and the results of a study I did. The study was an attempt to determine the separation efficiency. I cleaned my filter, then worked until I filled my 55 gallon dust bin (took about 6 weeks). I measured the amount of chips/dust in the bin and calculated the volume. I then cleaned the filter again, this time trying to capture all the fines that came out. I measured the volume of those (put them in a box and calculated the volume). I found my separation to 98.4% (or 98.6, can't remember) and forwarded all this Oneida. Apparently, after they got my separation number they gave up...since it was so close to their claimed 99% (my assumption). I never heard another word from them. Eventually, my OEM filter got to the point that I couldn't clean it anymore. Normally I would wait for the gauge to read 4", then clean it and it would drop to 2". But it got to where cleaning it wouldn't reduce the reading. I bought a new, much better, and cheaper filter to put on it. This replacement had 2 times the media of the OEM, 1/2 the cost, was USA made with much more robust construction, and a Merv15 rating (versus Oneida's Merv 16). It was from Penn State Industries for their cyclones and was plug and play on mine. That was in 2013, and my gauge still read 0" of backpressure when we moved (last time I ran it). But I'm still bitter about the whole thing and really wanted a CV, so when they had the site wide sale around Memorial Day I went ahead and bought for the new shop that may be in use one day. There were a handful of other minor things, all of which I resolved...but I see the separation thing a matter of poor design. If you follow Pentz, the Oneida design doesn't have any of the features he found needed for fine dust separation. But along with my complaints I've always praised some things about the unit. It's well built, mine was made when they were all heavy gauge steel (new have a lot of composite on them) and they are quite literally built like a tank. The impeller is almost a work of art with it's graceful swept vanes, and it moves air. I measured over 500 CFM through a 4" duct, and I get over 100 CFM through a 6" duct. Whew! That said, I'm one of only a very few who don't like their Oneida units, most guys have nothing but praise for them....and I'm happy for them. Just wish I had been one.

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It took a while to find this. That Oneida dust hood reminded me of one that Reid Smith had submitted to Wood Magazine. Reid was a member and frequent poster for a while at the Wood forum (Smitty) and is a member here as well, though I haven't seen him post in some time. Anyway, here is his version (screen shot of an internet page):

5995c89952663_ScreenShot2017-08-17at12_45_05PM.png.8a6ea1229310798b4860880c23a12ea0.png

Edited by Fred W. Hargis Jr
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9 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

 The last problem was the separation. I found the separation of the finest dust to be so poor, I had to out a gauge on the cyclone so I could monitor when the filter needed cleaning (Oneida also sells such a device). If I was running a marathon session on my drum sander, I could actually see the gauge readings climb as I worked. 

 Fred, I'd be tempted to try a inline separator next to the sander with a Thien separation plate in it, and then route it to the cyclone. It might keep the filter on the cyclone cleaner and give it more life. I built a separator that is about 10 gal and has a 4" port going in and 4" port coming out. I also have made a 5 gal version with 1-1/2" or  2" going in and out. What size is the dust port on your sander, or sanders ?  

Edited by CharlieL
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2 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

Charlie, I sold that sander a little over a year ago (Delta 18/36), I hope to replace it with a Supermax 19/38. But I had made a new dust hood that had a 6" port on it just so I could get max airflow.

Just a thought Fred. You may get better separation with the CV, I don't know, but would it be possible that going with a larger diameter port then what the sander came with, that it now moves so much more air that it doesn't give the fine dust a chance to settle out ?

Edited by CharlieL
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I don't think so, you need really good air flow through a cyclone to get the best separation. In fact choking it down would be more likely to cause the separation to suffer. But you also need that high air flow at the source to capture all the fines, the chips are easy...it's the fines that's hard to catch.

Edited by Fred W. Hargis Jr
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After the separator, my saw's dust goes directly outside. No bags to mess with. More space. 

I do have a small DC on the planer. But, not much fine stuff there.

I'm lucky to have no wood allergies and I'm not anal. Sanding dust gets vacuumed after a project...or three.

The only reason I have any dust collection at all is to make eventual shop cleaning easier. 

My wife has a sign in the kitchen. "A clean house is a sign of a sick mind." I don't think my mind is sick, but why take a chance?

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16 minutes ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

That would (to me) be the ultimate setup I'd do it if I wasn't heating in the winter.

My dc only runs when I'm sawing. My shop is heated with propane. And, has to be heated all winter as our well water pressure system is located in the shop.

I've always kept tabs on the propane usage. Easy to do cuz the shop has it's own tank. Comparing propane consumption from a few years before venting the dc outside to a year afterwards, there was little to no difference. Lotta variables but, I don't think there's much difference. 

Actually, the heat dissipates out of the hose, back into the room before it gets to the separator. At least, it never gets warm. 

Of course, YMMV.

 

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On 8/17/2017 at 11:16 AM, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

Eventually, my OEM filter got to the point that I couldn't clean it anymore. Normally I would wait for the gauge to read 4", then clean it and it would drop to 2". But it got to where cleaning it wouldn't reduce the reading. I bought a new, much better, and cheaper filter to put on it. This replacement had 2 times the media of the OEM, 1/2 the cost, was USA made with much more robust construction, and a Merv15 rating (versus Oneida's Merv 16). It was from Penn State Industries for their cyclones and was plug and play on mine. 

I've noticed that Penn State Industries has reduced their dust collection choices down to just a couple small units. I no longer see any cyclones.

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The dropped the cyclone business for some reason a few years back. They still sell filters (and maybe other consumables) for them though I would bet that will end in the near future. Their cyclones got very mixed reviews, although their single stage units (the first one I had) were actually very good. What surprised me was that while the cyclones and most of their other stuff was the typical imported tools, the filters they provided where among the best available. Not true with their bags though, I had to replace mine within a year or so because they had a plastic window that wasn't at all durable...mine broke rendering the bag useless.

Edited by Fred W. Hargis Jr
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1 hour ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

 The filters they provided where among the best available. Not true with their bags though, I had to replace mine within a year or so because they had a plastic window that wasn't at all durable...mine broke rendering the bag useless.

Interesting that you brought that up. I just bought a small used PSI 1-1/2 hp single stage DC, and it not come with a filter bag, so I've been looking for one. The bag they sell for it is kind of pricey, and it does have that plastic window. So I've been looking around at different brands of bags, and so far Rockler looks promising at a much more reasonable price for a 5 micron.

Edited by CharlieL
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  • 1 year later...

I got one of the router dust hoods for Christmas.   Used it this afternoon for the first time.   I was running a flush trimmer along the side of a cabinet and trimming the face frame.  All I can say is WOW!   If it didn't get 100% of the dust, I sure couldn't see what it missed.  There is a hood over the top where the vac connects and when using an edging bit, one of two half profile bottom shields that swivel around to follow the router.  So it picks up the dust from the top and the bottom.  I love it.  I have not tried, but don't believe the base is big enough for most palm-sized routers.  It says there is a web site that tells you which holes to use for which router, but I poked around and didn't see it.   And unfortunately, it does not work if you have a bushing that you need to use.  That was an application that I'd hoped for since it generates a lot of dust when I use a mortising bit.  I think I'm just going to leave it on my extra base unless I need to use the plunge mode.

Edited by kmealy
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