When I got into working with wood, I discovered that a 2"x 4" didn't really measure as advertised. I measured the rough sawed Oak beams in my old house and they measured in between 8 and 10 inches by around 2 inches. OK, I know that there seems to be no standards with rough sawed wood, How about what we buy at our suppliers now?  Can they say that it is half inch plywood when it is  less? Can they cheat and say what they want? Is there a regulating standard?

There has to be a regulating standard Ron. Lets find it! Anyone game?

When I go into our local big box and pick up a sheet of ply, the tag on the rack does say 3/4" (11/16")

So they are abiding by law I'd say, whatever law that is. That being said, this is why I try to stay away from big box stores and purchase sheet goods at hardwood lumber stores, they seem to only sell the true 3/4" thick plys, and 5/8" etc. And the quality is better, and often I'll find the price is better if not the same.

This could be the start of something Big!

4 minutes ago, Ron Altier said:

This could be the start of something Big!

You bet, lets' get to the bottom of this. Time to research, who ever finds what, please link the standard or law here. Great topic Ron.

I suspect if there was some standard to follow, a lawyer would have already figured it out and been advertising on TV to help all of us who have been seriously wronged.

8 hours ago, John Morris said:

You bet, lets' get to the bottom of this. Time to research, who ever finds what, please link the standard or law here. Great topic Ron.

California-ha-ha   Or stupidity of a lawyer that probably never lifted a hammer.

Next they need to go after the "Tung Oil Finishes" that don't contain any Tung Oil.  I'd be happy with that.

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/18/lowes-hit-over-the-head-with-a-2x4.aspx

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/business/lowes-16m-settlement-lists-2x4-labeling-requirements_o

A guy, old enough to know better, explained to me that there were different grades of Tung oil. Some is synthetic or man made, and some, the best grade, actually came from the Tung beetle.

I was afraid to ask about deck oil.

The store, where he is STILL employed, shall remain anonymous.

all they (manufactures) have to do is give the actual measurements or put the word aprox. PROBLEM SOLVED

 

 

Preston

The problem comes from too many people looking for free money.  This excerpt from one of Keith's links says it all and it is costing all of us money we don't need to be spending.

 

Corporations across the country are facing a rising wave of frivolous lawsuits every bit as idiotic as the one against Lowe's, though usually they're perpetrated by trial lawyers looking to reach their hands into someone else's deep pockets.

It's become common for lawyers to push their shopping carts down the aisles of grocery stores and pick off products to test novel legal arguments. That's why we've seen a proliferation of lawsuits against companies like WhiteWave Food, Kellogg, and Trader Joe's for using the term "evaporated cane juice" instead of "sugar;" and why PepsiCo, Whole Foods Market, and Kellogg have been sued for selling "all natural" foods and beverages that contain processed ingredients like high fructose corn syrup. Even Subway has been sued because its "footlong" subs were only 11 inches. 

Here's an interesting publication-

miscpub_6409.pdf

 

When I started in building construction and 2 x 4 was 1 5/8 x 3 5/8

Actually, there was a lawsuit in California that sued Lowes because the 2 x4 was not a true 2" x 4". The standard has been around a long, long time that the dimension is rough sawn then they surface the lumber. I am sure it is for the ease of measurement when selling that they stay with  the rough sawn size. Also, can you see on a construction job the lead carpenter telling the laborer to go get 4 - 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 instead of saying 4 - 2 x4's.

Here is a link about the lawsuit:

 

http://www.hbsdealer.com/article/lowes-ordered-pay-2x4-settlement

 

I guess they will sue the grocery stores next because their milk comes from a cow, not a plastic bottle or carton and meat comes from an animal and not wrapped in plastic.

 

16 minutes ago, lew said:

 

 

Interesting read, Lew...thanks for sharing...the history of sizing makes a lot of sense...

 

...now I need to go back and read it again to see which era you fall into, based on size of 2x4 

 

 

There's no doubt that the milk and meat in the grocery store bears only a passing resemblance to it's beginnings. Surely processed to a higher degree than lumber.

3 minutes ago, Nickp said:

 

 

Interesting read, Lew...thanks for sharing...the history of sizing makes a lot of sense...

 

...now I need to go back and read it again to see which era you fall into, based on size of 2x4 

 

 

If I remember correctly, they changed the sizes again when Old Growth was stopped being logged in the late 80's/ early 90's and the young growth took its place. Somewhere in the 90's.

THEN TO FIND A ROUTER OR SHAPER BIT TO FIT THEIR NEW MEASURMENT. Good luck with that one. Do I smell a new lawsuit?

 

Preston

Posted in another thread.

Rough lumber, hard and soft, is measured in 1/4s because the thicknesses are determined at the saw mill by detents allowing the blade to move in 1/4" increments.

When you buy S2S lumber from a true lumber yard, not a BORG, you may find areas of the board that are un planed. This is often due to the cupping or twisting that occurs between the sawing and planing. The planer is usually adjusted to a final run at +or- 13/16 to yield a board sold as 4/4. Out of geographical necessity, I only buy at two yards. Both are consistent at that 13/16.

1 hour ago, Gene Howe said:

A guy, old enough to know better, explained to me that there were different grades of Tung oil. Some is synthetic or man made, and some, the best grade, actually came from the Tung beetle.

I was afraid to ask about deck oil.

The store, where he is STILL employed, shall remain anonymous.

Tung beetle? Roflmao

This is what "nominal" is all about. And I suspect metric made machines being used to make American plywood which mostly comes from Canada or outside US. Since we are the last to use "metrics" ( remember that debocle?) Our measuring system doesn't exactly match the manufacturers.