Or not. It depends on the plane and the user. The man who introduced me to woodworking 21 years ago wouldnt let me use power tools or machines. Not until I learned how to sharpen, true, grind, file, and use hand tools. Lesson one was sharpening. He used waterstones and a low speed grinder. To camber the blade he would hit each corner on the grinder then finish up on the stones. He told me that cambering removed "tracks" left by square plane blades. At the time, I thought he was a genius. Now, I'm not so sure. I stopped cambering my blades a few years ago. All I do now is take a 2nd cut mill file and round the corners a bit. No more tracks. No more grinding. No more uneven sharpening. I do keep a cambered blade in my #6 for heavy stock removal on big, wide pieces, but thats it. What does eveyone else think about this and how do you prep a blade? If you decide to try rounding the corners like I do,let us know what you think.

I have done it both ways Adam. I rounded the corners and that seemed to work pretty good, no more edge marks. It's funny you mentioned you have a cambered bladed in your #6, I have one in my #6 too! I do love it. I gotta say, when you plane a sizable surface with the cambered blade, it sure leaves a sensuous undulating surface that I absolutely love. And the observer of the finished piece, can feel that with out a doubt, it was hand surfaced. I don't like the perfect surface a power planer gives, don't get me wrong, I use my DeWalt Planer all the time, but if I can, and if the piece I am making is a "high end" heirloom quality piece, nothing beats a hand planed surface. 

I have cambered few blades Adam, and the way I have done it is over time. As I sharpen, I apply pressure to the outside edges of the blade thus surfacing away the outside edges at a quicker rate then the inside center of the blade.

Veritas has a really nice camber assembly that fits on their MKII Honing Guide, I plane on purchasing this attachment in the future. Note the tapered ends of the wheel.

This attached to this

I love my MKII, it's one of the best investments I have made, I love sharpening by hand, it's quiet, relaxing, and zen.

Great discussion Adam.

---

John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

I have looked at the MKII but didnt know about this attachment. I need another sharpening jig. Thanks for the info and pics. Although I hope no one ever puts a 10-20 degreee back bevel on any plane blade. 1-3 deg is about right. Maybe back bevels or sharpening techniques would make a good discussion?

John Morris said:

I have done it both ways Adam. I rounded the corners and that seemed to work pretty good, no more edge marks. It's funny you mentioned you have a cambered bladed in your #6, I have one in my #6 too! I do love it. I gotta say, when you plane a sizable surface with the cambered blade, it sure leaves a sensuous undulating surface that I absolutely love. And the observer of the finished piece, can feel that with out a doubt, it was hand surfaced. I don't like the perfect surface a power planer gives, don't get me wrong, I use my DeWalt Planer all the time, but if I can, and if the piece I am making is a "high end" heirloom quality piece, nothing beats a hand planed surface. 

I have cambered few blades Adam, and the way I have done it is over time. As I sharpen, I apply pressure to the outside edges of the blade thus surfacing away the outside edges at a quicker rate then the inside center of the blade.

Veritas has a really nice camber assembly that fits on their MKII Honing Guide, I plane on purchasing this attachment in the future. Note the tapered ends of the wheel.

This attached to this

I love my MKII, it's one of the best investments I have made, I love sharpening by hand, it's quiet, relaxing, and zen.

Great discussion Adam.

---

John Morris

The Patriot Woodworker

I think that would make a great discussion and an even better video made by our members and posted on this site.

 

Adam Welker said:

 Maybe back bevels or sharpening techniques would make a good discussion?

John,

I started back beveling some of my blades after watching a great video on the Lie Nielsen site. They have some great videos that are easy to understand and the techniques work well. If you havent already, you should check them out. Just click "Youtube" at the top of their page.

John Moody said:

I think that would make a great discussion and an even better video made by our members and posted on this site.

 

Adam Welker said:

 Maybe back bevels or sharpening techniques would make a good discussion?

---

John Moody
John Moody Woodworks
http://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com

Aww cmon guys, your gonna make me the pragmatist?

 

While yes, the cambering of the blade does "eliminate" plane gouge marks on the edge of the blade, IT DOESN'T LEAVE A FLAT PLANED SURFACE!!!   Does it?

 

it's not flat, even or level.

 

And if it wasn't for your ROS you would end up with a ton of block sanding and a wavy surface to knock down.

 

Why don't you just run it through the planer/jointer and sand it?

 

If you want to go "Old School", learn how to use the tool properly.

 

Using a handtool means that you need the skills to make the handtool do what you need it to do AND:

 

that means learning to read the grain of the wood.

 

that means learning how to get a razor edge on that blade.

 

that means learning how to "fine tune" a plane.

 

that means having "ALOT" of planes from Jack planes to block planes to scraper planes to low angle planes (NO there isn't a "DO-ALL" plane).

 

that means you need to take a pencil and mark up the high surfaces then go over the surface from one side to the other EVENLY and not go twice (which is why you get plane marks ALONG with the plane blade being set too low).

 

Ok, now that everyone is either blushing because they're embarrassed about taking the "EASY" way out by cambering the blade Or ready to kill me cause "that's the way they were taught" let me make one thing clear,

 

Working with a handtool and developing those skills is an "ART".  It is a skill much like throwing a ball accurately, a dart to the bull, training your brain and muscles to act and respond to the tool and the wood.

 

I know everyone has a handsaw and a scrap of 1by around, throw it in a vise.

 

draw a line and cut along the line 8 or more inches.

 

How's your saw, is it sharp?

 

Does it have the proper amount of teeth for your strength?

 

Is it the proper saw?

 

Ok, how straight is your cut?

 

Is it 90º to the face of the board?

 

Is the edge of your cut all chipped up?

 

Put a straight edge on it and a light behind it, any light showing?

 

In these days of Table saws and planers we all have a tendency to forget how much work "Old School" is and take the time that is required to MASTER a tool like the "Old Timers" did.

 

And to take the EASY WAY OUT is doing nothing but robbing you of the very skill you are hoping to learn.

 

If you can cut a 2x4 off square just as accurately as a chopsaw, rip a 8 ft. long board as straight as a tablesaw, drive a screw by hand straight and accurately, plane and edge a board square and plumb with hand tools, THEN I'll apologize to you who has MASTERED that HANDTOOL.

 

Till then I'll keep honing my skills...

 

 

Which is just one more reason not to camber your blade. Roughing the corners works great. And by the way, I can get a perfectly flat and smooth surface, ready for a finish, with a #4 way faster than any random orbit/belt/palm sander. While you are moving through grits, I am assembling.

dragon1 said:

Aww

cmon guys, your gonna make me the pragmatist?

 

While yes, the cambering of the blade does "eliminate" plane gouge marks on the edge of the blade, IT DOESN'T LEAVE A FLAT PLANED SURFACE!!!   Does it?

 

it's not flat, even or level.

 

And if it wasn't for your

ROS

you would end up with a ton of block sanding and a wavy surface to knock down.

 

Why don't you just run it through the planer/jointer and sand it?

 

If you want to go "Old School", learn how to use the tool properly.

 

Using a handtool means that you need the skills to make the handtool do what you need it to do AND:

 

that means learning to read the grain of the wood.

 

that means learning how to get a razor edge on that blade.

 

that means learning how to "fine tune" a plane.

 

that means having "ALOT" of planes from Jack planes to block planes to scraper planes to low angle planes (NO there isn't a "DO-ALL" plane).

 

that means you need to take a pencil and mark up the high surfaces then go over the surface from one side to the other EVENLY and not go twice (which is why you get plane marks ALONG with the plane blade being set too low).

 

Ok, now that everyone is either blushing because they're embarrassed about taking the "EASY" way out by cambering the blade Or ready to kill me cause "that's the way they were taught" let me make one thing clear,

 

Working with a handtool and developing those skills is an "ART".  It is a skill much like throwing a ball accurately, a dart to the bull, training your brain and muscles to act and respond to the tool and the wood.

 

I know everyone has a handsaw and a scrap of 1by around, throw it in a vise.

 

draw a line and cut along the line 8 or more inches.

 

How's your saw, is it sharp?

 

Does it have the proper amount of teeth for your strength?

 

Is it the proper saw?

 

Ok, how straight is your cut?

 

Is it 90º to the face of the board?

 

Is the edge of your cut all chipped up?

 

Put a straight edge on it and a light behind it, any light showing?

 

In these days of Table saws and planers we all have a tendency to forget how much work "Old School" is and take the time that is required to MASTER a tool like the "Old Timers" did.

 

And to take the EASY WAY OUT is doing nothing but robbing you of the very skill you are hoping to learn.

 

If you can cut a 2x4 off square just as accurately as a chopsaw, rip a 8 ft. long board as straight as a tablesaw, drive a screw by hand straight and accurately, plane and edge a board square and plumb with hand tools, THEN I'll apologize to you who has MASTERED that HANDTOOL.

 

Till then I'll keep honing my skills...

 

 

Put a straight edge on top and shine a light behind it, then get low enough to look under the Straight edge.

 

Notice anything?

 

Maybe a Scraper plane is in order to help take the tops of the waves out.

 

While "Smooth" can be felt with the fingers it is not the same as "Flat".

 

And since the wood has grain to it it helps hide "Waves".

 

Take a second out to try it, I think you'll be able to fine tune it a little more.

 

 

By the way, How many of you put the plane down flat on a stone to set the blade to the plane when you finish sharpening the blade and are putting it back in the plane?

I put a slight camber on my blades. Less on my jointer and more on my #5. Smoothers are about the same as my jointer.

My low angle jack has almost zero camber. Block plane has no camber and a very slight radius on the corners.

# 40 Scrub plane has just about 3" of radius. Lots of camber as it should be.

I sharpen with sand paper on granite using the MKII. I have the camber roller but just use the straight roller and pressure control on the edges to get a camber started. I'm doing a little sharpening by hand but so far the best results are with a guide.

I drew out a camber on auto cad and a 10" radius on a 2" blade with a 45 degree bed gets to be about 1/64 higher at the edge.

 

Mark

Some of you guys are missing the point of using planes instead of machinery, I love the marks of hand planing. I know for a fact that customers of high end hand made woodwork, are looking for the camber marks, they are looking for the undulating and lows and highs. They don't want a perfect surface,they want proof that that blanket chest, was surfaced by hand and not with an ROS or surface planer. Perfection is not the mark of a craftsman, nor the mark of good tools, perfection is in the eye of the beholder, and like fine wine, or a good cognac, there are flaws in a perfect work or piece of art, and those flaws is what sets a fine piece of woodworking apart from the boring machined surfacing that a power planer provides. Again as I stated above, I use my power planer most of the time myself, but when I want to put that extra character in a piece, it's getting surfaced with a hand plane. And I'm putting chiseled Chamfers in the corners and edges,, not a perfect chamfer with a router, but a chamfer that undulates and rolls. Take a spoke shave and put some unique edges on your next piece of woodwork, it says you all over it, not Porter Cable, it says you.

---

John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

WOW! Very well said, John. You hit the nail on the head. Building furniture is an art form and a reflection of you. I could not have said it better. Well done!

John Morris said:

Some of you guys are missing the point of using planes instead of machinery, I love the marks of hand planing. I know for a fact that customers of high end hand made woodwork, are looking for the camber marks, they are looking for the undulating and lows and highs. They don't want a perfect surface,they want proof that that blanket chest, was surfaced by hand and not with an

ROS

or surface planer. Perfection is not the mark of a craftsman, nor the mark of good tools, perfection is in the eye of the beholder, and like fine wine, or a good cognac, there are flaws in a perfect work or piece of art, and those flaws is what sets a fine piece of woodworking apart from the boring machined surfacing that a power planer provides. Again as I stated above, I use my power planer most of the time myself, but when I want to put that extra character in a piece, it's getting surfaced with a hand plane. And I'm putting chiseled Chamfers in the corners and edges,, not a perfect chamfer with a router, but a chamfer that undulates and rolls. Take a spoke shave and put some unique edges on your next piece of woodwork, it says you all over it, not Porter Cable, it says you.

---

John Morris

The Patriot Woodworker

Interesting question. I set my blades with a small block of wood by taking a light shaving on each side of the blade until the thickness are the same. But setting it on a flat stone or surface plate is a good idea. I will give it a try.

dragon1 said:

By the way, How many of you put the plane down flat on a stone to set the blade to the plane when you finish sharpening the blade and are putting it back in the plane?I

I use the block of wood as well Adam but I referance a flat surface if I have had the blade out of the plane.

I had a friend do this when he started with planes last summer and it helped him quite a bit. 

 

Hey guys, let me know if you find a bunch of waves on a chippendale or any of the "handmade" master works.

 

And while yes, a spokeshave WILL leave a "handmade" line a stanley 45 does it straighter, with more precision, and is still "handmade".

I LIKE  plane marks.   A too smooth surface says "Machined", and I'm trying to get away from a machined look.  I'll even handplane my legs for those tables I make.   As for corner of blades being rounded,  uh, no, not in my shop.  I have enough trouble just getting the darn thing square in the first place.  That liberty Bell does have just a little roundness to it, but that is because that is the way it works.

Not sure about "Waves" but as this article supports, there are tool marks in abundance and uneven joints in original Chippendale's, would stand to reason that the planed surfaces are not perfect either.

Tooling Marks in Chippendale

A lot of furniture was made prior to the Stanley 45 also.

Here is another cool piece of information posted by Buddy Floyd Master Cabinetmaker.

"In the 18th and early 19th century all the work was done by hand. The marking gauge, saws, and hand planes all left distinctive marks on the wood surface. The marking gauge was used to lay out the joints and left fine lines parallel to the edge of a board in the wood. Most of the time these marks were not completely erased by later use of a hand plane or scraper on the wood. Hand saws left parallel nicks, at about 30 degrees, on the edge of the board. Also on the inside of the drawer little nicks the width of the saw blade can be seen. This was the result of just a little over cutting of the dovetails. The jack plane left shallow scallops on drawer bottoms, underneath tops, and on the inside and backs of cases. Only on the out side of furniture were all the tool marks removed. Surfaces were for the most part not sanded but left polished from the hand plane or scraper. The polished surface of hand planing cannot be equaled by sanding."

 

I am a firm believer of his last statement, regarding the polished surface of a hand plane cannot be equaled by sanding.

 

All in all, my point was, hand tool marks are a plus, not a distraction. I have had the pleasure of sitting at an original late 1700's English Windsor dining set at a friends house. To this day I can still visualize the hand tooling marks on the table tops surface. The surface was not perfect, it had obvious hand plane marks, and it was beautiful with it's original patina intact. While a Chippendale may not display those hand plane characteristics on it's main cases surface, other pieces do. Maybe Thomas Chippendale was not fond of hand plane evidence on his furnishings, but makers of this late 1700's Windsor did not mind it.

dragon1 said:

Hey guys, let me know if you find a bunch of waves on a chippendale or any of the "handmade" master works.

 

And while yes, a spokeshave WILL leave a "handmade" line a stanley 45 does it straighter, with more precision, and is still "handmade".

---

John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker