Just a question for the OWWM guys. When restoring an old machine, how important are OEM parts. I know with older machines, oem is the only way you can do it with larger parts, but say you were missing specially shaped screw heads, yet a standard screw would do the job as well, would you go to hates and back to find that specialty screw or would you go do with what you got? I was just perusing the fantastic machinery we have on our site and was thinking.

 

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

John

I am a bit of a stickler for detail, and in many cases the OEM parts are damaged or missing or broken. Some have slide down the slope of OWWM so far as to add metal woorking machines to there shop for the sole purpose of rebuiling those parts.One could hire a pro to do the work and I have in the past had machinist's do work for me.I am not there yet but see it coming. Anything/parts can be made like  patterns for recasting parts to specal bolts nuts handle shafts. The best is to find a  complete machine, or two machines like Larry did with his delta scrooly. Now if you find that is not enough of a challange try old British machines. The old english stuff it BSW threads and  and then there;s the spaners(wrenches). As you start to get into OWWM you become bettter at looking for the machines that are worth a rebuild. Or you are  like me and you look for a rare English machine. One of the best places tho is the fourms like this one where there are many who are here to help and love to do so. Its all about saving a little bit of industrial history. Most of the OWWM stuff is melted down and made into cheep wallmart product.

 

What does a country do when it stop making things? we must preserve  the knowledge of our industrial past for the furture.

The question of how thing were/are made is coming fast. It is our responsible to pass this on to the next generation.The trades are is bad shape we must carry the torch. If we don't know where we came from how do we know where we are going.

 

 

jack

English machines

 

Thanks Jack, and well done. I would like to respond in detail, I have more questions but I must leave for the day. I'll be back on later. Hopefully by then more will have chimed in as well. Your work is superb Jack, thanks for being here.


tool613 said:

John

I am a bit of a stickler for detail, and in many cases the OEM parts are damaged or missing or broken. Some have slide down the slope of OWWM so far as to add metal woorking machines to there shop for the sole purpose of rebuiling those parts.One could hire a pro do do the work and iu have in the past had machinist's do work for me.I am not there yet but see it coming. Anything/parts can be made from like patterns for recasting parts to specal bolts nuts handle shafts. The best is to find a  complete machine, or two machines like Larry did with his delta scrooly. Now if you find that is not enough of a challange try old British machines. The old english stuff it BSW threads and  and then there the spaners(wrenches). As you start to get into OWWM you become bettter at looking for the machines that are worth a rebuild. Or you are  like me and you look for a rare English machine. One of the best places tho is the fourms like this one where there are many how are here to help and love to do so. Its all about saving some little bit of industrial history. Most of this stuff is melted down and made into cheep wallmart product.

 

What does a country do when it stop making things? we must preserve  the knowledge of our industrial past for the furture.

The question of how thing were/are made is coming fast. The trades are is bad shape we must carry the torch. If we don't know where we came from how do we know where we are going.

 

 

jack

English machines

 

 

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

John,

I do the older machines simply because I like them better than the newer equipment. Not saying anythings wrong with the newer equipment, just that I'm referred to as a bottom feeder on other websites. In other words I simply can't afford to spend alot for equipment. The Delta scroll saw that I did has less than $150.00 tied up in it, thats for the two saws plus the parts and materials used to bring it back to life. As far as the nuts bolts screws etc, most can be duplicated using off the shelf parts. Like a fillister head screw can be made from a panhead etc. . Alot of the brass hardware that I use comes from a box of stuff I got at a rummage sale paid $5.00 for the shoebox full of stuff. As to other parts I search the web sometimes finding parts listed in a wrong catagory so end up getting it for less than what it would have gone for if the seller listed it in the right location. Sometimes rummage sales turn up something I've been looking for, estate sales also. I also watch the newspaper ads thats where I found my shaper, It's a 1936 Delta 1188 that came with the sliding shaper jig, and a box full of cutters. That machine is the one I paid the most for out of what I have $250.00. I figured the cutters alone were worth the price. It too needs a restoration, but is complete. The same seller had a four footed Unisaw that he wanted $300.00 for but I didn't have enough money at the time, and had my tilty saw  allready.

So sometimes deals do turn up, oh BTW the Unisaw was a runner but was also in need of restoration it to was complete.

Later,

Larry

 

 

I too am also a bottom feeder. I cannot afford to spend alot to purchase a machine. I will, however, spend the money in the restoration. As for parts, I will attempt to locate OEM parts if possible. There are a few parts that are readily available especially for the more common machines, i.e unisaw, DeWalt RAS etc. The really old machines most of the parts must be manufactured and I am not capable of doing that. Bolts, screws etc if damaged I will replace with a modern equilivilent if necessary. I was able to locate a fairly rare part for my Oliver table saw, the riving knife bracket, and it was not cheap. But I felt it was a necessary part for a few different reasons. Yes, I could have made one with a few pieces of scrap steel, a welder and some minor machining but one did fall in my lap for a decent price. Believe it or not Oliver had the riving knife figured out in the 50's, why can't manufacturers do it today?

 

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My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist

Larry you make it sound friendly, I mean a woodworker could start up an entire shop on a shoestring if they went this route. And, your getting real machinery, thanks for your post on this.


Larry Buskirk said:

John,

I do the older machines simply because I like them better than the newer equipment. Not saying anythings wrong with the newer equipment, just that I'm referred to as a bottom feeder on other websites. In other words I simply can't afford to spend alot for equipment. The Delta scroll saw that I did has less than $150.00 tied up in it, thats for the two saws plus the parts and materials used to bring it back to life. As far as the nuts bolts screws etc, most can be duplicated using off the shelf parts. Like a fillister head screw can be made from a panhead etc. . Alot of the brass hardware that I use comes from a box of stuff I got at a rummage sale paid $5.00 for the shoebox full of stuff. As to other parts I search the web sometimes finding parts listed in a wrong catagory so end up getting it for less than what it would have gone for if the seller listed it in the right location. Sometimes rummage sales turn up something I've been looking for, estate sales also. I also watch the newspaper ads thats where I found my shaper, It's a 1936 Delta 1188 that came with the sliding shaper jig, and a box full of cutters. That machine is the one I paid the most for out of what I have $250.00. I figured the cutters alone were worth the price. It too needs a restoration, but is complete. The same seller had a four footed Unisaw that he wanted $300.00 for but I didn't have enough money at the time, and had my tilty saw  allready.

So sometimes deals do turn up, oh BTW the Unisaw was a runner but was also in need of restoration it to was complete.

Later,

Larry

 

 

 

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

I love Oliver machines Ken. The style, the flared footprint. Great stuff.

You know what started this line of questioning from me was a car show I was watching, and the value of the classic cars were higher that had all matching serial number and OEM parts. Some of these car enthusiasts were so diligent, that they would track down that NOS part or (new old stock) even if it took them half their lifetime to do it. They were not going to put that car back together unless they new that bolt, was OEM for that 74' Mercury Cougar. Pretty impressive to me, since I am very short of patience at times, and if I saw a piece of machinery coming together, and it was at it's last stages, and I needed just one more part, I'd veer away and get aftermarket just to finish it so I could use it. But that is why they call restoration a discipline at times. Like fine wine, you need to nurture it along until it is ready, no sooner, no later. Thanks guys, this was fun.

Ken Rasmussen said:

I too am also a bottom feeder. I cannot afford to spend alot to purchase a machine. I will, however, spend the money in the restoration. As for parts, I will attempt to locate OEM parts if possible. There are a few parts that are readily available especially for the more common machines, i.e unisaw, DeWalt RAS etc. The really old machines most of the parts must be manufactured and I am not capable of doing that. Bolts, screws etc if damaged I will replace with a modern equilivilent if necessary. I was able to locate a fairly rare part for my Oliver table saw, the riving knife bracket, and it was not cheap. But I felt it was a necessary part for a few different reasons. Yes, I could have made one with a few pieces of scrap steel, a welder and some minor machining but one did fall in my lap for a decent price. Believe it or not Oliver had the riving knife figured out in the 50's, why can't manufacturers do it today?

 

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My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist

 

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

John,

I love the restoration challenge.  It starts out as a project and then becomes a passion.  The excitement for me is the hunt for the parts to replace worn or lost OEM parts.  Its part of the practice.  When I am in the restoration process, its the original parts that are sought out.  If I were just trying to get a machine running then its the easiest and fastest way possible to get replacement parts.  That's my take on your question.  I did make two parts for my lathe.  The quill lock and the lower sheave shaft.  The wrench is an OEM along with the indexing plunger.  I did weld the indexing sprocket to the spacer for safety sake.  I kept all the hardware as I disassembled my lathe.  If there was a specific piece of hardware that was special to that build I would seek it out.  Price, availability and visibility would drive the OEM vs plain hardware search.  Would someone that knows the machine see the replaced part?  If not then can you live without the original.  My father in law worked his 1936 Ford 3 window coupe to last detail.  His originally came with a trunk but he converted it to a rumble seat.  The rain trough in the trunk was different from the rumble seat.  He painstakingly hand made that trough and welded it in place to keep the integrity of the car.  Would it have mattered?  No but it was his passion.

Hi John,

It all depends on where you find the items. The collectors are killing us "bottom feeders" if we try bidding on items on the auction sites. More often then not I've been blown away by the price an item ends up going for. I'm glad I got my tenoning jig when I did about six years ago, they now go for four to five times what I paid for mine. The sliding shaper jig that came with my shaper, I just saw recently go for about $100.00 more than I paid for the whole machine. I am still looking for a couple of the attachments for the tilt table saw, and may never find them at a price that I can afford. Hopefully not so, as I've been accumulating parts for it for about ten years now, and as you stated the table saw is pretty much the center of a shop. It's the one machine I would like to find all of the attachments for. I finally aquired an old drillpress about a year ago after passing on several, and getting outbid on several. In the end the one I did get exceeded my expectations condition wise, and was aquired at what I felt was a real good price which surprised me as it was from an auction site. I'm now on the hunt for attachments for it, but keep getting beat up if I'm finding them listed at auction. So I guess that half the fun comes in finding the bits and pieces to assemble a machine that is complete with attachments.

In some manners it can be friendly others not. The shaper I aquired came from the grandson of the original owner, he had refused to sell it to a couple of people fearing that they would just part the machines out for a profit, he wanted them to go to someone who would appreciate and use them as his grandfather did. I've ran accross a couple of people this way, and in the end we both ended up happy with the exchange of ownership.

I myself am trying to duplicate my own grandfathers shop, I believe the tilty I have at least part of it came from his shop. It has what appears to be his initials in the back edge of the table top. I found it at a rummage sale about forty years after his passing. It will finally get the attention I feel it deserves. I barely remember grampa's shop, but remember that most of his equipment was mounted on a single bench ran off of a line-shaft setup from below. I remember watching him using his equipment, changing the belts to run the different machines. He always made me stay sitting on a stool when I would watch him. My father couldn't believe that I could remember that, and grampa's 39 Chevy. But when I described my memories he said that by my description the car had to be the 39 Chevy. I was 3 when grampa passed away, those memories about floored my dad. He too passed away, when my son was about 3 at the same age as grampa they were both 61. My uncle had sold off grampa's equipment without telling anyone, for some drinking money, according to my dad I was supposed to have gotten the equipment as per grampa's wishes. From what I was told the two never spoke to each other afterwards.

So I guess that is why I have my interest in the tools from that era. I have added some that I don't know if grampa had or not but may have as my newest is as old as I am. We both date from 1958. That would be my 900 radial arm saw, another of those take two make one deals. My jointer is probably newer than the one grampa had, but was one of those can't pass deals. It's a 1955 37-220 longbed, that I plan to backdate appearance wise with a change of handles. That way it will look like it belongs with the tilty table saw.

Enough of memory lane for now,

So until later,

Larry

John Morris said:

Larry you make it sound friendly, I mean a woodworker could start up an entire shop on a shoestring if they went this route. And, your getting real machinery, thanks for your post on this.

Larry Buskirk said:

John,

I do the older machines simply because I like them better than the newer equipment. Not saying anythings wrong with the newer equipment, just that I'm referred to as a bottom feeder on other websites. In other words I simply can't afford to spend alot for equipment. The Delta scroll saw that I did has less than $150.00 tied up in it, thats for the two saws plus the parts and materials used to bring it back to life. As far as the nuts bolts screws etc, most can be duplicated using off the shelf parts. Like a fillister head screw can be made from a panhead etc. . Alot of the brass hardware that I use comes from a box of stuff I got at a rummage sale paid $5.00 for the shoebox full of stuff. As to other parts I search the web sometimes finding parts listed in a wrong catagory so end up getting it for less than what it would have gone for if the seller listed it in the right location. Sometimes rummage sales turn up something I've been looking for, estate sales also. I also watch the newspaper ads thats where I found my shaper, It's a 1936 Delta 1188 that came with the sliding shaper jig, and a box full of cutters. That machine is the one I paid the most for out of what I have $250.00. I figured the cutters alone were worth the price. It too needs a restoration, but is complete. The same seller had a four footed Unisaw that he wanted $300.00 for but I didn't have enough money at the time, and had my tilty saw  allready.

So sometimes deals do turn up, oh BTW the Unisaw was a runner but was also in need of restoration it to was complete.

Later,

Larry

 

 

 

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John Morris
The Patriot Woodworker

I forgot to mention a source of parts, and sometimes machines. Get to know the scrappers in your area, these guys get stuff and haul it off for scrap prices. When you talk to them tell them what you're interested in, and let them know that you're willing to pay more than scrap price. You might just find what you're looking for at a real decent price.

Also get to know the guys at your local metal recycling centers, I've gotten a couple of machine stands and old motors this way. Paid $5.00 a piece for the stands, the motors go by scrap weight.

Also I've gotten machines on ebay( I look for the local pick-up only) when I pick up the machine I tell them if they run accross (_________ fill in the blank) to let me know. Thats how I got one of my radial arm saws. The person called  and asked if I was interested. No bidding required, and at a price that was fair to both of us.

I've never been quick enough to get anything on Craigs List, but it is also a source for items.

I've also gotten a couple of items from this website (thanks guys).

Another source for machines, and parts is the owwm.org website.

I'm sure that there are more, so give us a clue to your favorite sources.

Thanks,

Larry