May 17, 201214 yr  Using GF Enduro pre cat I've learned that when you apply it over BLO you first need to seal the BLO with Shellac.Failure to do so can result in a white dusting of the finish after a few months as the BLO reacts with the finish. The problem with BLO and other oils is that they never really dry out. The surface that happens to be exposed to air catalyzes with the O2 in the air. This becomes a soft, dry to the touch, but still gooey at the molecular level, and never hard and never truly dry layer. This layer blocks O2 from accessing the rest of the BLO beneath. Water based finishes appear to establish a molecular interaction with the catalyzed BLO and over not very much time at all they penetrate the catalyzed layer and access the BLO beneath and VIOLA your finish is toast.The solution to having wrecked your finish is to strip it sanding it away. You should be able to get it all off and out because the BLO will have blocked much of it.  Then re apply the BLO, let it cure, and hit it with shellac before re-applying the water based finish. Then make up your mind whether you really like BLO at all for future consideration.
May 17, 201214 yr Cliff Great review.  I have used BLO a couple of time but never tried putting anything over it.  After reading your post, I never will. Thanks again  Fredaka Pop's Shopwww.pops-shop.comEX-21'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'
May 18, 201214 yr I use BLO, Shellac, and then an oil based varnish. I have not delved into the water borne products yet. I am under the impression that waterborne is not good over shellac either? At least that's what the white label on Deft waterborne varnish says, not for use over shellac, it specifically states it. So I just assumed that all waterborne finishes are not to go over shellac.John MorrisThe Patriot WoodworkerProud Supporter of Wounded Warrior Project and Homes For Our Troops
May 18, 201214 yr Author the GF people say you can use it over shellac. I spoke to them about using BLO and that was the only way they'd stand behind their Water based pre cat.I am a total fan of pre cat 181 and a total convert from alkyd urethanes.Clean up is a snap that's a big selling point but the quality and beauty of the finish is - - well nothing short of marvelous. It's vastly better looking than the alkyds I was using. And it's tough as nails.  But the real kicker is that in my dusty dirty shop with exposed dust covered rafters studs and dust on the floor inches thick in places even while running fans I can brush the stuff on and it dries dust proof in mere moments. I can re-coat in 40 minutes or less.Enduro Pre Cat 181 has turned my shop into a dust free finishing booth. It's worth the money. It's worth more than they ask.The first water based finish was the minwax polycrylic I liked the speed of drying and the water clean up, but its looks were unimpressive. this stuff is fabulous. get a quart and give it a go.
May 18, 201214 yr CliffOn another board, a fellow said that one must use their sanding sealer first.  Would this be after the BLO or before?  I really like the grains to stand out on my stuff.  Gives that added dimension to the piece.You said, "It's vastly better looking than the alkyds I was using."  I have been using Deft Lacquer for some time.  Can you say the same thing about this finish?Another question - brush or spray?At $30 a quart, it should be good - but for water-based?  I can get a gallon of Deft Lacquer for that.Guess I'm really curious about the product.  Seeing is believing - may just have to try it.  Fredaka Pop's Shopwww.pops-shop.comEX-21'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'
May 18, 201214 yr 30 bucks a quart! Yikes, that would dent my bottom line.Fred, seal the BLO with shellac first, just remember, water and oil don't mix. The water based product cannot penetrate the oil. You should be able to spray General just like any other finish, if we can't then that's another reason not to purchase it besides the high price. But if it's as good as Cliff says, 30 bucks might be worth it. But for a quart? Yikes!By the way, BLO before the sealer.Fred Wilson said:CliffOn another board, a fellow said that one must use their sanding sealer first.  Would this be after the BLO or before?  I really like the grains to stand out on my stuff.  Gives that added dimension to the piece.You said, "It's vastly better looking than the alkyds I was using."  I have been using Deft Lacquer for some time.  Can you say the same thing about this finish?Another question - brush or spray?At $30 a quart, it should be good - but for water-based?  I can get a gallon of Deft Lacquer for that.Guess I'm really curious about the product.  Seeing is believing - may just have to try it.  Fredaka Pop's Shopwww.pops-shop.comEX-21'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'John MorrisThe Patriot WoodworkerProud Supporter of Wounded Warrior Project and Homes For Our Troops
May 18, 201214 yr Author On another board, a fellow said that one must use their sanding sealer first.  Would this be after the BLO or before?  I really like the grains to stand out on my stuff.  Gives that added dimension to the piece. That's was not mentioned by the GF tech when I spoke to him. I've applied it sans any sealer and as expected it raises the grain something fierce - coz there's water - and that's prolly why some people prefer the sealer.   So if sanding the raised grain is an issue you might want to use a sealer.  When I need to sand and the assembly will interfere with that I will pre finish before assembly stages so that I can sand with freedom. I've never used a sealer.  Tougher to do in a production shop than on my bench were time is irrelevant. You said, "It's vastly better looking than the alkyds I was using."  I have been using Deft Lacquer for some time.  Can you say the same thing about this finish? I purchased a very nice Italian made spray gun exactly because I was thinking of getting into lacquer and never used it I have never used a lacquer. So I can't say. Another question - brush or spray? It's supposed to be sprayed, but I brush it.  I get no brush marks. Unlike lacquer it does not burn in and unlike lacquer it is not going to last forever in the can.
May 18, 201214 yr Thanks guys for the input. Â I'll probably stick with lacquer for the time being.Fredaka Pop's Shopwww.pops-shop.comEX-21'Soooooo many patterns - sooooo little time'
May 22, 201214 yr I use the GF Enduro Var which is water based and I have sprayed it over the Shellac. It also is in the 30.00/qt range, but it sprays great, cleans up good and put on a very nice finish. I have sprayed several cedar chest out of one quart.Thanks for the review CliffJohn MoodySite AdministratorJohn Moody Woodworkshttp://www.johnmoodywoodworks.com
May 29, 201214 yr Author Used the sealer today. I don't know how they did it but they made a water based sealer that prevents the grain raising that One normallly expects with a water based and the look of it when you hit it with 220 grit and then finish is as if there was nothing used besides the final finish. Ya can't tell that it was used even on a board where half was sealed and half was not.
June 1, 201214 yr Author 30 bucks a quart! Yikes, that would dent my bottom line. Well yes and no. Think on it for a second. The finish spreads out rather thinly do a little goes a long way. And because it is the final touch that makes the presentation all that and the requisite bowl of grits it is more than reasonable to spend as much as you have to in order to get the best presentation you can. So taken in the gestalt it's not that expensive if ( as I have) you forst take the chance on a can to see how you like it howe it performs and whether you think that it offers the "look" that you believe is appropriate for your work. I tried a can on the force of a fellow woodworker's advice who does wood kitchens and wood counters. He told me he uses it on kitchen counter tops and that it dries almost instantly. I'd been struggling with dust for as long as I've been doing woodworking and was eager to try a solution so it was an easy experiment for me. It proved to be way far better than any other finish I've ever used or seen. Goes on like a dream dries dust proof in mere moments and is the most beautiful natural finish I've ever seen short of oil and hand rubbed wax. Compared to the alkyd urethanes I'd used most my life it is just indescribably better looking. No heavy plasticky built up look. It looks like when god made the tree he also finished the wood. And the clean up - some soap and water and that's it. And you can thin it with water. Talk about user friendly. I can see me using this stuff for so long as I play with wood. Yah it's a little spendy but it's worth more than they ask. And now I just got myself hooked on the GF sanding sealer too. That stuff is great. Get a can of each and try it on your next project. you too will be hooked.
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