New to scroll sawing

[Pauley]

I hope it’s ok to ask a couple dumb questions.  
 

1.  (dont laugh) do the teeth face up or down on the scroll saw?  I think it’s down, but not sure.

2.  How do I know if I am doing the tension correctly?  I got a Wen 21 inch scroll saw and it has a tension knob with numbers from 1 through 5, but the manual doesn’t help me.

3.  Finally the correct speed for the tension/wood type..?

Thanks for any help

[lew]

My knowledge extends to- teeth pointing down.

[Pauley]

3 minutes ago, lew said:

My knowledge extends to- teeth pointing down.

Thanks Lew.  That’s what I thought, but did not want to start off with a dumb problem.

[Gene Howe]

 Hopefully, @Smallpatch will weigh in. He's  only been scrolling for 15 minutes but, I think he has it down pat. 

Glad you asked your questions. I just got a scroller and need some advice, as well.

[Al B]

I'm definitely no expert here but the teeth face downward. If placed upward the blade would constantly want to lift the piece off the table. 

[forty_caliber]

I don't think I got the scroll sawing gene.  The teeth do in fact go down.  My patience seemed to dwindle pretty quickly after that.  I sold my scroll saw along with lots of other tools when we moved here.

 

.40

[Smallpatch]

Pauley teeth always go down.

   Now you could have blades that are called reverse tooth blade and that means about 6 or 8 teeth are sticking up but the blades with the most teeth sticking all one direction is always down so that means the few teeth sticking up are there for supposedly to cut the back side of the wood smooth but that is supposed to happed if you have installed the blade in the middle of both top and bottom both clamps....

   They also sell blades with every other tooth is pointing up and down

  But for someone just learning how to control the scroll saw only use the blades that go all in one direction and again that would be down.

  The blades that have the few teeth sticking up will give a person the fits for the bottom teeth will catch on the wood and try to toss it up in the air...

  To learn how to run a scroll saw in my mind is to gently hold the wood and don't force it in to the blade and try to keep the blade centered on the line of your pattern.

  Also if you know the wood is going to kick up some times then you will be putting too much pressure downward and actually causes the reverse tooth blade to kick up.

  The only blades I use that have all the teeth going in one direction is for metal sawing and that might make the blades last longer being for metal.  Olson makes metal cutting blades and they can be bought from The Wooden Teddy Bear woodworking site. Good sizes to learn to control everything is the numbers 5, 7 and 9. I also buy the Flying 
I also use Flying Dutchman blades which are reverse tooth style and same sizes as the metal cutting ones.

 And not being savy on the Wen, does your saw take either style blades, if so then buy the pinless type for after you learn and want to do lots of sawing inside then you will first drill a small hole, take the blade loose from the top, thread the blade through the hole then retighten the blade so this means the pinless blade will slip through a very tiny hole if you are using the very small blades.

  I would recommend not ever using the spiral blades for they will not teach you any control what so ever and learning to stay on straight lines or follow a line on the patterns is when accuracy is needed. And this learning curve don't come over night.

  I would also recommend you set the tension half way in the middle and experiment whats going to happen when less tension is applied or if you give it lots of tension will let you control what you want the blade to do.

  The old pinging of the blade for a certain sound is not worth a crap for what you hear and what the next guy hears might be a world of difference. Once you learn what number it is set on is much easier than any other way . So if you install either the top of the blade first or the bottom first don't matter for this is up to the person running the saw... just make sure when tightening the other end to make sure you are not leaving any slack before you set the tension knob.      And before installing a blade make sure the tenson is all the way off first then set the tension.

  What side of the line should you saw on . It don't matter but I find if I stay exactly on the line my wood looks much neater for you are always asking your self how much away from the line am I cutting and when you finish  you will see lots of places that look bad.  If I draw out a pattern I use the thinnest pencil lead possible this way I am completely removing the line when finished sawing...

 Don't be in a hurry a blade can only cut so fast. Yes, speeding up the speed the blade is running will saw faster but can you keep the blade on the line as good.  And if you spend too much time in one place you will burn the wood. I use a Dewalt 788 and I keep the speed about half throttle. I use to be in a hurry but no need to any more. I also recommend only tightening the blade knobs with you fingers only and if you get slippage you might fold some sand paper over each end of the blades a few strokes before installing them.

 

When sawing wood stop moving the wood and relax you grip on the wood and see if the wood stays in place. This will tell if you are pushing the wood from side to side trying to stay on the line. You don't have to take you hands off the wood completely just relax you grip and see if the wood stays still.

So I think its best to keep your good eye on the blade and make sure the blade stays straight up and down while your other eye watches where the saw is cutting. You can always tell if a one eyed guy owns and uses a scroll saw.

[Pauley]

20 hours ago, Smallpatch said:

Pauley teeth always go down.

   Now you could have blades that are called reverse tooth blade and that means about 6 or 8 teeth are sticking up but the blades with the most teeth sticking all one direction is always down so that means the few teeth sticking up are there for supposedly to cut the back side of the wood smooth but that is supposed to happed if you have installed the blade in the middle of both top and bottom both clamps....

   They also sell blades with every other tooth is pointing up and down

  But for someone just learning how to control the scroll saw only use the blades that go all in one direction and again that would be down.

  The blades that have the few teeth sticking up will give a person the fits for the bottom teeth will catch on the wood and try to toss it up in the air...

  To learn how to run a scroll saw in my mind is to gently hold the wood and don't force it in to the blade and try to keep the blade centered on the line of your pattern.

  Also if you know the wood is going to kick up some times then you will be putting too much pressure downward and actually causes the reverse tooth blade to kick up.

  The only blades I use that have all the teeth going in one direction is for metal sawing and that might make the blades last longer being for metal.  Olson makes metal cutting blades and they can be bought from The Wooden Teddy Bear woodworking site. Good sizes to learn to control everything is the numbers 5, 7 and 9. I also buy the Flying 
I also use Flying Dutchman blades which are reverse tooth style and same sizes as the metal cutting ones.

 And not being savy on the Wen, does your saw take either style blades, if so then buy the pinless type for after you learn and want to do lots of sawing inside then you will first drill a small hole, take the blade loose from the top, thread the blade through the hole then retighten the blade so this means the pinless blade will slip through a very tiny hole if you are using the very small blades.

  I would recommend not ever using the spiral blades for they will not teach you any control what so ever and learning to stay on straight lines or follow a line on the patterns is when accuracy is needed. And this learning curve don't come over night.

  I would also recommend you set the tension half way in the middle and experiment whats going to happen when less tension is applied or if you give it lots of tension will let you control what you want the blade to do.

  The old pinging of the blade for a certain sound is not worth a crap for what you hear and what the next guy hears might be a world of difference. Once you learn what number it is set on is much easier than any other way . So if you install either the top of the blade first or the bottom first don't matter for this is up to the person running the saw... just make sure when tightening the other end to make sure you are not leaving any slack before you set the tension knob.      And before installing a blade make sure the tenson is all the way off first then set the tension.

  What side of the line should you saw on . It don't matter but I find if I stay exactly on the line my wood looks much neater for you are always asking your self how much away from the line am I cutting and when you finish  you will see lots of places that look bad.  If I draw out a pattern I use the thinnest pencil lead possible this way I am completely removing the line when finished sawing...

 Don't be in a hurry a blade can only cut so fast. Yes, speeding up the speed the blade is running will saw faster but can you keep the blade on the line as good.  And if you spend too much time in one place you will burn the wood. I use a Dewalt 788 and I keep the speed about half throttle. I use to be in a hurry but no need to any more. I also recommend only tightening the blade knobs with you fingers only and if you get slippage you might fold some sand paper over each end of the blades a few strokes before installing them.

 

When sawing wood stop moving the wood and relax you grip on the wood and see if the wood stays in place. This will tell if you are pushing the wood from side to side trying to stay on the line. You don't have to take you hands off the wood completely just relax you grip and see if the wood stays still.

So I think its best to keep your good eye on the blade and make sure the blade stays straight up and down while your other eye watches where the saw is cutting. You can always tell if a one eyed guy owns and uses a scroll saw.

You have answered all my questions.  That’s some great information. I did notice the wood wanting to jump up, so I slowed down on my pushing and it was much better.  Thank you so much for your help.  I’m printing out your reply so I can refer back to it.

[Cal]

22 hours ago, Pauley said:

You have answered all my questions.

 

Don't think that Pauley, you just got a crash course to get you started!

[Smallpatch]

I agree Cal for the scroll saw is totally different than learning wood working tools in general

and thats not counting cnc type of things.

   Just getting to where one can saw a straight line is almost impossible for the first few years

and thats why I keep mentioning spiral blades for they do not offer any experience using regular 

scroll saw blades. And the regular pinless blades are what is used on 99% of the things a scroll saw

is used on.

     Another machine that takes some time on is the 1" x 42" belt sander when rounding these small 

pieces of these puzzles I put together regularly. When I first started using them I would have to

bend down and pick up those pieces that got ripped out of my fingers plus going in to the house

for bandages and having to stop the blood flow.

  Now I use a 1/8" piece of BB about one inch wide behind the running belt as I guide those

pieces of wood in to the shapes I need and do it much faster than using the large Saburr bits

in the small 1/4" collet chuck.  I never seen any one do that before. I take the flat piece of metal

backing the belt slides on completely off so it does take some time to end up not making the belt

slip off the pulleys. 

This does make the belt come apart more often but I think the time saved is worth it. So now I am 

looking for some real small bearings to put side by side on a little axle to have say a1 1/2" wide

idler type of thing to use instead of the flat piece of wood.

  I hope all this can be understood for I'm no book writer type of person.

 

[RustyFN]

I think it was Steve Good that had something on tension. What I learned from it if you pluck the blade with your finger and get a dull sound it needs to be tighter. When you pluck it with your finger and get a crisp ting sound you are good to go.

[Cal]

17 hours ago, RustyFN said:

I think it was Steve Good that had something on tension. What I learned from it if you pluck the blade with your finger and get a dull sound it needs to be tighter. When you pluck it with your finger and get a crisp ting sound you are good to go.

 

Would that be with, or without, hearing aids in Rusty?

 

 

20 hours ago, Smallpatch said:

I hope all this can be understood for I'm no book writer type of person.

 

Pics would be helpful Jess.  There was a guy a week or so that posted up pics of a small belt sander that had an idler pulley that was only used when the table and belt backing thingy was not used.  Sounds a bit like what you are thinking about.

[Smallpatch]

Cal I will do the picture thingy.

 

And RustyFN I have read that pinging thing before and I don't believe any two people alive can both come up with the same sounds they think they hear when beating on a saw blade!  Please excuse my bluntness but the more I thought what I was reading the more I kept shaking my head in wonderment?

 

So my blade tensioning is maybe more of a standard thing as most all times I set the Dewalt 788 in the middle of the dial and go from there for different thicknesses of wood and the density of the wood makes a difference also like if I was to saw bass wood would get a different setting when sawing Maple.

[RustyFN]

2 hours ago, Smallpatch said:

Cal I will do the picture thingy.

 

And RustyFN I have read that pinging thing before and I don't believe any two people alive can both come up with the same sounds they think they hear when beating on a saw blade!  Please excuse my bluntness but the more I thought what I was reading the more I kept shaking my head in wonderment?

 

So my blade tensioning is maybe more of a standard thing as most all times I set the Dewalt 788 in the middle of the dial and go from there for different thicknesses of wood and the density of the wood makes a difference also like if I was to saw bass wood would get a different setting when sawing Maple.

You aren’t looking for a certain note just a ping sound instead of a dull thud.

 

 

[Smallpatch]

Okay I hear you and at least it will give a new scroller something to think about. I believe in time a person will end up making his own decisions but at least that gives them more to think about or worry about.

[Smallpatch]

Cal this is what I do to make this sander save me some time for making or to sand out inside curves already made.

I do know it also causes the belt to come apart more often but I know it saves me lots of time.

  I have ordered some real small bearings to make a roller set up to hold in my hand to guide where it needs to sand to go behind the sand paper.  Then I read where lots of guys are not so happy with what they got for their money but like some one said hey I got 10 bearings for 10 bucks where one american made bearing is over 11 bucks each.  And after I would also need 10 bearing for what I am thinking of making they are worth a try.

These sanders comes with a flat piece of metal that mounts behind the blet if some one  needs to sand something flatish in case I need things flattened.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Smallpatch

[Gene Howe]

Rigid sells an oscillator with some pretty small diameter sanding sleeves. I modified mine to use longer sleeves. That way, pieces can be manipulated in the air, to sand more angled/curved areas. With the rubber spindle covers, there's no need to provide a hard backing. 

Works great for my weird bandsaw boxes. 

Wen sells a less expensive one, too.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Gene Howe

[Smallpatch]

Gene I have a Rigid but it or the taller 9" oscillating sleve sander just don't get to where I need to get sometimes. I would have to have part of the wood up past the sleeve and that knocks the small pieces of the carvings out of my hands and hurts me sometimes. This is just something extra that is handy to use that I don't already have a machine that will do the same things.

  

the last thing I carved the only sand paper I used was with the Dremel Multi-max sander # 6300 that has the rectangle sanding pad with the velcro sand paper.  I comes with a very poor qualitly sanding material but don't think 3M or Norton has replacement paper for these... or actually can't ever think of looking their sites over when needing more.

   

   For someone looking to buy a 1 x 42" belt-disk sander even though the 1 x 30" is exactly like the larger one but the sanding area is too short and is not near as handy just so you heard it from me, don't buy one! And both machines sanding disk is 8" inches wide meaning a regular sheet of sand paper will fit  instead of having to buy one that is already round with a price tag a few times higher than regular paper.. 

   Also if the material to be sanded is clamped sturdy and has lots of area for a person to mover around the things to be sanded..one might think of buying a sanding sleeve with a 1/4 or 1/2" shaft that goes in a drill chuck. It would never get used if one does this type of carving I do but hey some out there might need one of them!

[Smallpatch]

Gene, I just thought of when I made those scroll saw boxes the most used power machine sander was the Grizzly 9" oscillating sleeve sander.

[Gene Howe]

When I finally get around to start scrolling and, after lots of practice, I intend to make boxes and bowls. Maybe, some lettering. For sure some compound cutting and, eventually, some intarsia. Similar to your end of the trail pieces.