Friday January 22nd-2021-What's on Your Weekend Agenda?

[kmealy]

1 hour ago, Larry Buskirk said:

 

Never met a mouse that could chew into conduit, but have seen sections of romex stripped clean.

Never could figure out why there were no electrocuted bodies nearby. 

Working on the theater shop outdoor lights.   They just used Romex across the outside of the building (no conduit no UF or whatever is needed).   Half the lights were not working.  We isolated it to a section where it went above what was at one time a sliding door.   There was about a foot of Romex sheaf that was chewed off and a bit of wire insulation chewed off.  No bird or mouse carcasses that we could find, though it was about 18' in the air, so we didn't really check.

 

 

I have used EMT (metal conduit) a few times, but the latest trip to Menards, they had some plastic conduit.   Anyone used it or know of its legal use?

[kmealy]

2 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Well Keith, I didn't know about that requirement. Additionally, even #12 wires are stiff enough to discourage me from wrapping them around the outlet or switch screws. 

I wired my whole shop with #12 and agree completely.  Subsequently, I found a tool that helps bend the ends and push/pull them in the outlet box.  Used it just  couple times and like it.

 

[Cal]

That looks like a good multi-tool Keith.

Gene, my BIL showed me how to bend the hook needed for 12 ga wire and screws.  On this tool you use the hole towards the base of the jaws.

 

 

 

The better outlets and switches though don't require you to bend and screw the wire down, the wire is stuck into the side and is clamped down by a screw.  Much simpler. 

[Ron Dudelston]

Building a bedroom suite with my son.  Quarter sawn cherry.  Pretty stuff.

[DuckSoup]

46 minutes ago, Cal said:

Gene, my BIL showed me how to bend the hook needed for 12 ga wire and screws.

[DuckSoup]

@Gene Howe fwiw I would run 3/4" conduit, the cost increase is minimal compared to 1/2".

 4"x 4" x 2 1/8 deep boxes, again minimal cost plus more room for devices.

#12 THHN stranded. There is no reason to fight solid wire.

My preference is ground up on a receptacle. My thinking is if anything falls down on a plug I would rather it hit the ground prong than the hot & neutral. 

 

When wiring a receptacle or switch I try to stop short of removing the insulation from the end of the wire, takes a little practice but it has its advantage. I then back wrap the wire. When looking at the end of a piece of wire you can see that it is twisting clockwise,

     twisting the wire counterclockwise (back wrap) you get this

 

 The advantage comes when wrapping the wire around a screw

 

 

Screw on the left has the insulation removed and was not back wrapped.

Screw on the right has maybe an 1/8" of wire left under the stripped insulation.

[HandyDan]

[kmealy]

On the topic of electricity.   Opinions and experiences with Waco WallNuts vs. twist on wire nuts?   Any differences with stranded vs. solid or joining two different gauges, or etc.

 

[Larry Buskirk]

56 minutes ago, DuckSoup said:

@Gene Howe fwiw I would run 3/4" conduit, the cost increase is minimal compared to 1/2".

 4"x 4" x 2 1/8 deep boxes, again minimal cost plus more room for devices.

#12 THHN stranded. There is no reason to fight solid wire.

My preference is ground up on a receptacle. My thinking is if anything falls down on a plug I would rather it hit the ground prong than the hot & neutral. 

 

When wiring a receptacle or switch I try to stop short of removing the insulation from the end of the wire, takes a little practice but it has its advantage. I then back wrap the wire. When looking at the end of a piece of wire you can see that it is twisting clockwise,

     twisting the wire counterclockwise (back wrap) you get this

 

 The advantage comes when wrapping the wire around a screw

 

 

Screw on the left has the insulation removed and was not back wrapped.

Screw on the right has maybe an 1/8" of wire left under the stripped insulation.

 

Code around here requires single strand for 110 Volt outlet, and lighting wiring.

[Fred W. Hargis Jr]

34 minutes ago, kmealy said:

On the topic of electricity.   Opinions and experiences with Waco WallNuts vs. twist on wire nuts?   Any differences with stranded vs. solid or joining two different gauges, or etc.

 

I've used those Wago connectors, and they are great when you're doing remodeling and don't have enough wire for a wire nut. I've only used them on solid wire, and then only if the space or other considerations precluded the wire nut. Sin e it's a clamping thing, I still remember replacing all those "backstab" outlets in a house we had because they all started failing at the clamp...which is a little like the Wago.

[Gunny]

My new helper showed up last night. Wanted to work. So I walked him through using the jug I made and after an hour he got it all cut. Took him 5 minutes to put together.

 

I am going to be spoiled with this kind of help. Hold 70 paint cans.  

 

 

 

[Gerald]

Gunny I really like that can storage idea. May have to to steal that

[FlGatorwood]

This storage cabinet reminded me of Gunny and his cabinets.  

 

[Gunny]

4 hours ago, Gerald said:

Gunny I really like that can storage idea. May have to to steal that

 

 

Not difficult, this will save you some time.  Each hole needs to be a MINIMUM of 2 ^3/4 inch square.  That will fit the largest diameter can I had in stock.  For this I tilted the flats 8 degrees, we tried a few different mock ups and this seemed to do well.  All this seemed like a good idea until I had to make the jig.  Once the jig was made and TS set up I made real sure we had cut enough pieces plus two just in case.  Lost a extra row but I wanted them to lay towards the back and not fall out if it got bumped.  Seems to work well he shook the unit pretty hard and nothing fell.  

[DuckSoup]

8 hours ago, kmealy said:

Waco WallNuts

 The only time I would use them is when replacing a ballast in a lighting fixture. Solid wire and it saves some time. I wouldn't use them anywhere else.

I would size a wire nut to the larger gage wire. When mixing stranded with solid under a wire nut I like to lead the stranded ahead solid, it just wraps around the solid wire & this seems to give it a head start on the twisting action.

 Stranded wire is a lot easier to work with.

 

8 hours ago, Larry Buskirk said:

Code around here requires single strand for 110 Volt outlet, and lighting wiring.

 The pictures are for demonstration only.   

[Gunny]

48 minutes ago, DuckSoup said:

When mixing stranded with solid under a wire nut I like to lead the stranded ahead solid,

 

 

This is a good tip.  My preference is to solder the tip of the stranded wire making it solid.  Often referred to as "tinning".   Now you have solid to solid in the nut.

 

Interesting note here on soldering wires.  Sure great for lights and connectors at home and such.  BUT, for automotive it is NOT always used / recommended.  Sadly few do.  I am speaking of applications though.  For some automotive systems soldering a wire can raise the resistance of that wire on the circuit.  This can be a problem so the manual will tell you NOT to solder. 

 

Be interesting to hear from @Artie as  this is his area of expertise.  

[Artie]

On 1/22/2021 at 9:07 AM, Gene Howe said:

I have no injuries to limit my production. Old ages takes care of that.  After the last few weeks of riding herd on workers, we're finally getting back to the shop. We've got 6 more rafters on that house in the shop to remove. Then, the stud wall can come down. The next major step is insulation against the coming summer heat. But, we're a good ways from that step. After insulation comes the plywood wall sheeting and, finally the wiring. Thinking of THHN, unless @Artie dissuades me.

We're hoping to be up and running by mid Aprii. But, who knows?

There are specific devices (receptacles, and switches) made for stranded wire, unless of course if you are buying solid wire with thhn insulation, then all devices are rated for solid wire (best of my knowledge). I like stranded thhn, but when terminating it I always twist the strands together tightly so it acts like a solid wire when bending and terminating.

[Artie]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:49 AM, Gunny said:

Have a helper for next few weeks. Friend's son wants to get his feet wet doing woodworking. As my arm is out if commission for week or so, yeah I'll take some help.  

I’m hoping you two develop into a mentor/mentee relationship. I know it’s great to learn from someone who knows what he’s doing, and I have enjoyed helping a younger one learn hisself some things.

[Artie]

On 1/22/2021 at 1:31 PM, Gene Howe said:

@Fred W. Hargis Jr, everything will be in conduit and, Romex is to difficult to pull and, a hassle to strip back for each switch, outlet, J box. Plus, I can get by with a smaller dia. conduit. Not that I'm cheap or lazy....

In my experience, even when the customer KNOWS he will never be adding any more circuits, it is always nice to upside the conduit at least one size. If you are using EMT and can bend it, I would not use anything smaller than 3/4 and would probably use 1 in my shop. I fed an 8 x 8 x 4 box with 3- 3/4 lines from the panel, and then fed each wall from the box with a 3/4 EMT. This is in a shop only 15 feet by 18 feet. The ability to add/rearrange in the shop is huge to me.

[Artie]

On 1/22/2021 at 1:35 PM, kmealy said:

I might be wrong, but I thought if wires went into conduit, it had to be THHN.   Or maybe it's that you can't strip off the outside of Romex and use that because the individual wires are not labeled.    I have put some Romex in conduit, but only for a few feet as it came down a wall surface mounted or underneath open joists to protect from impact.

There are MANY insulation’s you can buy. Most can be run in conduit, but the code lists different fill ratios depending on the insulation. Gets pretty interesting doing the math sometimes. THHN is rated for the 90 degree requirement for passing ballasts, recessed lights and the like. It is a nice slippery insulation, pulls well in conduits/raceways.