Motor reversal

[PeteM]

I have an old Warner 1/2 hp motor, 1440 rpm, probably built in the 50's.  It powers a lathe which was also built about the same time, and has seen a fair amount of use, now in its third home.  I know that it was turning CCW up until I plugged it in, and it brewed up CW.  Name plate says 220/110 (and it's 1-phase).  The motor leads have a woven cover insulation, and there is no wiring diagram anywhere.  Also, I don't know if I'd trust the color of the wires; one wire has the label "3" on it.  I have a bit of experience with motors, but not enough to understand wye and delta and bezacktly why it chose now to reverse itself, but I assume there is some phase thingy change between central Phoenix (where it was running CCW) and its current home (about 10 miles south-er).  Would swapping the leads do the trick, or might that smoke it?

[Larry Buskirk]

Pete,

Could you post a couple of photos of the motor?

Trying to determine what type of motor you're dealing with.

Capacitor start, Split Phase, Repulsion induction?

[Smallpatch]

It won't change on its own. If it is a reversible motor two wires will have to be changed.

[Larry Buskirk]

If it's a RI motor the brush position would need to be changed. Some old motors had a lever that would rotate the brush plate changing the position of the brushes to change direction.

[HandyDan]

Turn the motor around 180° and remount it.

[John Morris]

10 hours ago, HandyDan said:

Turn the motor around 180° and remount it.

Sometimes Dan, sometimes.

[Smallpatch]

And the motors that can be reversed will have the directions inside the lid covering the wire connections. That was one thing Sears used to have with most of their motors was the ability to change directions........I have a few of those motors and are still running.

And lots of their motors had a shaft on each end with the two shafts being of a different diameter.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Smallpatch
I forgot

[Larry Buskirk]

Also depending upon what type motor you've got it may be possible to add Forward/Reverse with either a DPDT or Drum switch.

I'll be doing a drum switch on a 1/2 HP Delta Milwaukee Capacitor Start motor that will be powering both a lathe, and drill press.

[PeteM]

OK, responding to questions:  I got it to work by simply rotating it, but that makes the entire assembly (lathe) about a foot longer, so I'll eventually want it or another motor in proper config.  The switch box is obviously not OEM!  It wasn't re-wired between last use and this time, so I am baffled as to why the rotation reversed.  Early in my career (dealing with lots of fans and motors) I know the trick was to reverse leads, but it's been a while since I stuck my nose in it.  No lid, no instructions.  In the end, after making sure everything else works on the lathe, I may just reverse the leads and see what happens when I flip the switch (using a 10' pole!).

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[Larry Buskirk]

Pete,

Can't quite tell in your second photo, but is that a lever at the top in the left side of photo?

 

[PeteM]

27 minutes ago, Larry Buskirk said:

but is that a lever at the top in the left side of photo?

 

I wish! 

[Larry Buskirk]

..Must have been a shadow?

[Larry Buskirk]

@PeteM,

Can you get a clear photo of the badge on the motor?

 

[PeteM]

1 hour ago, Larry Buskirk said:

@PeteM,

Can you get a clear photo of the badge on the motor?

 

Ayup.  Here is what I see:  motor barrel has stamped "4005(?)" and then "K2609" (the "?" is an obscured notation; you can see the "K2609" in the photo.  Line by line the nameplate entries are:  AC MOTOR TYPE RA     FRAME 65Y     MOD B3001  K2609     1/2 HP     1440 RPM     1  PH     60 CYCLE     110 VOLTS     8.4 AMP.     220 VOLTS     4.2 AMP.     [NO SEC V, A]     CODE F     CONT RATING 40C     NO 3Y

[Larry Buskirk]

@PeteM

I believe what you have is a Repulsion Induction motor.

I found a few photos showing the reversing mechanism.

 

www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14819

 

[Gunny]

4 minutes ago, Larry Buskirk said:

@PeteM

I believe what you have is a Repulsion Induction motor.

I found a few photos showing the reversing mechanism.

 

www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14819

 

 

 

Hey save that we need one for the TPW shuttle.

 

[PeteM]

31 minutes ago, Larry Buskirk said:

@PeteM

I believe what you have is a Repulsion Induction motor.

I found a few photos showing the reversing mechanism.

 

www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=14819

 

I don't think they're the same.

[Larry Buskirk]

7 minutes ago, PeteM said:

I don't think they're the same.

That is a RI motor. There should be something similar to shift the brush plate to change direction.

[Larry Buskirk]

@PeteM,

I found another Wagner motor, and this is what positions the brush plate in position.

 

If you loosen the screw to the left of the bearing/shaft hole you should be able to turn the brush plate. (Just loosen, don't remove)

It might already be loose, and the plate may have moved when you handled the motor.

There should be some sort of mark to tell where to position the brush plate.

[PeteM]

I appreciate the research, and reversing the motor direction is on my "someday" list, after I make the new table legs!  The physical accommodation was to swap motor ends, and that lengthened the overall construct by about a foot (main platform is 60"), but on a 13' bench, I have the room for now.  Larry, I will stick my pinkie and a little mirror in that half moon opening to see what it looks like.  Thanks for the interior view!